What’s Really Underneath Eating When You’re Not Hungry, and How to Rewrite Your Relationship with Food with Lisa Schlosberg

Inna (00:01.27)

Lisa, I am so excited to have you. Welcome, welcome to Thyroid Mystery Solved Hashimoto’s and Hypothyroidism Revealed.

Lisa Schlosberg (00:09.14)

Thank you, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Inna (00:12.234)

Of course. So food is the foundation for everything. And food is fuel. However, if it was this easy, right? Then everyone would be doing what they’re supposed to do. And in theory, right? No one would have trouble losing weight or sticking to a plan or eating in a way that’s best for their immune system or their thyroid or whatever it may be. But there’s just so much more to this, is

what I’m so excited to get into. So why don’t we start with why is there so much when it comes to food?

Lisa Schlosberg (00:48.158)

Yeah, great question. Great first question. So the way that I talk about it, teach it, understand it is all of us, we are a spiritual being having a physical experience with an animal brain in a social context, surviving on food. So to answer the question, why does it feel sometimes like there is just so much around it?

mentally, emotionally, spiritually, socially, ancestrally, culturally, financially. There’s all these parts of it because we’re a spiritual being having a physical experience with an animal brain in a social context and food is the substance on which we survive. So there’s a lot around it for very good reason.

And I can just start there, you know, but there’s so, there’s a lot of ways that I can kind of unpack that statement so it makes sense. I’m curious if you have any follow-up questions, just hearing that.

Inna (01:42.03)

Many. And it’s one of those things where I actually almost want you to repeat it again because there was so much in there. I’m like, wait, did everyone actually understand what that means? Because food is the foundation for all of these things. And I think what would be helpful is if we talk a little bit about your story and how you were able to put it all together because it didn’t just come to you like this overnight, right? You have such a story and such a journey. And I think it’ll be so helpful for everyone to hear.

Lisa Schlosberg (01:51.071)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Inna (02:12.032)

and connect with and then we can go from there.

Lisa Schlosberg (02:13.95)

Yeah, okay, beautiful, thank you. So it always starts at the beginning for me and for all of us. When I was younger, when I was growing up, I identified as the strong one emotionally. I didn’t need help from anyone. I was always fine. I was fine, I was fine, I was fine, I was fine. Nothing bothered me. I didn’t struggle.

I was fine and I believed that I really believed that and I had a lot of people in my life believing that. Um, and so that’s kind of how I grew up emotionally. That said, way that I grew up physically was if you look at my weight chart, I just gained more and more and more weight every year. So I was according to the BMI chart and my pediatricians and my doctors growing up morbidly obese and I was over 300 pounds when I was 17 and

The reason I split it sometimes between how I grew up emotionally and how I grew up physically is because I didn’t think at the time that those two things had anything to do with each other. And now I understand that they have everything to do with each other. And so to make a very long story short, I was very overweight my whole childhood. When I went to college around 17, 18, I lost 150 pounds and I have spent the last

It’s been about 12 years since then I’ve spent the last decade really figuring out how to answer the question I had at the time That is how do I maintain this weight loss without living with an eating disorder for the rest of my life? Because for me I swung the pendulum from overeating to under eating my weight loss happened very quickly It was very extreme and a lot of weight came off. But at the end of my weight loss I was starving and malnourished and my hair was falling out

and I lost my period and I was freezing all the time and I was fatigued and my brain wouldn’t function and I didn’t know why. My whole life, every doctor, nutritionist, dietitian, specialist said to me that what I needed to do was eat less and exercise more and then I would be healthy. And so I did.

Inna (04:27.822)

Mm.

Lisa Schlosberg (04:31.108)

I ate less and I exercised more. And so at the end of my weight loss, was very, I was confused because I thought this was supposed to be the answer. And I remember saying at my lowest weight that this is the least I’ve ever weighed and the least happy I have ever been. And so I really had to figure out kind of my way back. What does it look like to restore my health and my body and my weight and, really live in balance?

and harmony with my body and myself. And a lot of that for me required learning how to feel my feelings so I wasn’t eating them. And I put a lot of dots together toward the end of my weight loss that food was really my drug. Food was the thing that kept me feeling safe and protected and comforted. Food was my friend and my companion.

early on in my childhood when there was the big T trauma of my of my life ultimately when my little sister passed away and and that’s when it all started for me. I started using food in a way that I was not conscious of at all. I couldn’t have told you this at the time. You know, I had no idea any of this was operating this way. But once the weight came off, I started experiencing what a lot of people do when they’re in recovery, which is the upheaval of

Inna (05:34.985)

Mmm.

Lisa Schlosberg (05:55.752)

All this emotion?

And so I went through this kind of identity shift of, know, I used to be the strong one who didn’t care about anything. And all of a sudden I was crying at everything and I was so tender and vulnerable and I had to really get to know this person. And so ultimately now I know all these years later, the way that I’ve maintained my weight loss without being rigid and controlling around food is I know how to feel my feelings. So I’m not eating them. I know that I am a spiritual being and I,

operate that way. And so I’ve had to commune with all these parts of myself, ultimately internally. And that has allowed me to experience what I have physically. So my mission and message is is really about the mind body soul alignment and connection. So that food and eating and body image and weight and all of these things in the physical dimension can can feel safe and stable and aligned and healthy.

So I guess that’s the version of my story that’s coming out today.

Inna (07:03.21)

Yeah. Well, first, my gosh, you’ve been through so much and I’m so sorry to hear about your sister. mean, I can’t even imagine what that must’ve been like. And, you know, I think about everyone who’s listening to this and hearing your story and connecting with you. And some people of course have this big T trauma, but there’s also so many people who have little T trauma and in some situations, tiny T trauma where

You know, it may not be such a big thing, but it’s these continuous kind of pokes at us, if you will, right? Of you’re not being a good girl or, you only got an A, why not an A plus? Or, you know, being responsible for other people’s feelings. I mean, that’s something that I grew up with and really only just recently now figuring out.

What a trauma it really was to have to tiptoe around certain members of my family and literally learning that my actions are actually dictating someone’s reactions. So of course it’s better to stay small and to minimize and to not kind of do too much, take risks or anything like that. And I’m bringing this up only because I think.

for everyone listening, we all have our form of trauma and it doesn’t necessarily have to be something big T. Obviously, of course people have that, but it’s all trauma that I think can do this. And I think some people, so many people don’t realize like you were explaining that we then use food for our emotion and you know, we eat our safety versus finding safety in other ways. So

How would people know when they’re using food in this wrong way? Because, you know, there’s the social aspect too. And, you people say, okay, well, I’m good during the week, but on the weekends I go out with my friends and we do a little bit more. Like, is there really anything wrong with that? Right? Well, I don’t know. Maybe not. Right. But, but how do we know when there is this emotional connection and people are looking to it for safety or for happiness or for whatever it may be?

Lisa Schlosberg (09:24.351)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great question. So there’s so many things I want to say. The first is I always like to clarify when I’m talking about ultimately now what we’re talking about is emotional eating. And I always like to clarify that there is nothing wrong with it and there’s nothing bad about it inherently. I think it’s important to allow emotional eating to be one of the tools in the toolbox. And the problem that I see, A,

where it applies to my own personal story, but also when I’m working with people, the problem with emotional eating is when it is the only or the primary way that you know how to cope with your stress and your emotion. When it’s the only way that you know how to cope.

that’s a problem just because it’s imbalanced. There’s not other things that are serving you. And so then we start trying to solve an emotional problem with a physical solution is what I’m always saying. We can’t solve an emotional problem with a physical solution. You can eat all the food that’s going to make you feel better temporarily, but you have to know it’s not going to take away the heartache, the grief, the anxiety, the fear, the inadequacy, the insecurity, all that stuff that we all live with. It’s not going to take that stuff away. It’ll just kind of distract you for a moment with a dopamine hit. And so it’s, it’s important to

know that and put it in that context, think because, A, it takes some of the shame and the fear of emotionally eating out of it and leaves room for, you know, I always think it’s important to understand for me, I’m a brain science geek, I can talk about the neurobiology of this forever. But just so people know out there that are listening, if you know that this is true for you, and I’ll get there, you know, there are four chemicals that are released in the brain that make us feel good.

the neurotransmitters, dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins, they all have their own job, they all feel a little bit differently. But the reason I bring that up is because dopamine and serotonin are released in the brain every single time we eat, period. And so we are biologically designed to seek out food or…

Lisa Schlosberg (11:26.919)

any source of these chemicals when our stress gets too high and we want to bring our stress down or lift our mood up. So there’s neurobiology that explains why we actually turn to food for emotional purposes. It’s not because we’re weak and we have no willpower and there’s something wrong with us and all of that. It’s science. This is exactly how we’re designed. And I always also like to add, you know, the reason that food feels so good and lights up the reward center in our brain is very much the same as why sex feels

so good and lights up the reward center in our brain is because it it’s supporting our survival. This is how we survive. So our brain is designed to feel good when we eat it and to seek it out when we’re feeling stressed out. So I always like to just add that, you know, because it’s like if anyone’s listening to this still thinking what’s wrong with me that I turned to food, nothing at all is wrong with if anything, everything’s working properly. This is a good sign. If you find yourself being an emotional eater.

It means your mind body system is operating exactly as it should. So that’s the first thing. So how do we know? How do we know if we’re an emotional eater? Well, we start paying attention.

we start paying attention. I can’t tell you if you’re an emotional leader, you can tell you if you’re an emotional leader because you’re the expert on your own experience. And so we start paying attention. And so one way is to really just get curious. The problem, not the problem, the obstacle I find with getting curious is that it tends to mindlessly become being judgmental.

Inna (12:47.65)

Mm-hmm.

Inna (13:03.854)

Mmm.

Lisa Schlosberg (13:04.711)

And we don’t want to be judgmental. We’re not judging, we’re not shaming, we’re not blaming, we’re not making meaning. We are practicing being the objective observer, the non-judgmental observer. Hmm, I notice that I’m eating, I notice that I want to eat. What’s going on with me right now? Am I hungry? Is my body hungry? Or do I just feel like eating? Those are two different things.

So start paying attention. And then once you start asking questions, you can get some answers. I have a podcast episode with one of my clients, one of my early, early, early podcast episodes. And he was talking about his experience of being my client in some of the work we did together. And he said, he just started asking the question, why? And it changed everything. He’s like, I’m walking into the kitchen. So I pause and I say, why? And then sometimes I notice I’m actually hungry and I need food in my body. This is homeostatic hunger.

And then sometimes I notice that I’m just bored. I’m just feeling kind of lonely. I’m kind of anxious. This is hedonic hunger, eating for emotional reasons.

And so that’s how we start knowing is we just start paying attention. You just start asking, why am I eating? Right? But it’s not, it’s important. It’s not, why am I eating? Why are you doing this? Right? It’s not shaming. It’s not fear-based. It’s really, it’s curious. It’s open. And if you have that kind of relationship with yourself where you’re willing to turn toward yourself lovingly, gently, compassionately.

Inna (14:22.645)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Schlosberg (14:37.856)

with the intention of just getting to know a little bit about your own experience, that starts to create a space where you can figure some things out from there.

Inna (14:47.214)

That’s such a good example because, and I love what you said about not asking why in a shampoo way, but asking why just because we’re curious. Because my next question to you was how would people start to figure out if that’s the case? So this is a great way for everyone to start. Like as you open the fridge, go to the kitchen, know, pick up a fork, right? It’s just like, okay, why? I know for me, I started asking this as well and I could be better.

but a lot of it for me is procrastination. And I want to say boredom, but the thing is I have so many things to do. I am not typically bored. However, sometimes there’s something that I want to do may feel like there’s a deadline and then there’s some kind of, I really want to do this. And I typically, I try not to do things I don’t want to do.

as much as possible. Obviously there’s always going to be that, but you know, I’ve been working on that. But even with things I want to do, sometimes maybe it feels hard. And I feel like, okay, I’m really excited to write this chapter or to record this or whatever it may be, but, but, you know, like, let me go down to the kitchen. And it’s like, why? Because I am not hungry. At least in the kind of the real sense of the word.

Lisa Schlosberg (16:05.782)

Right, right. And that’s, I have to just say, like, one of the things that I find so fascinating about doing this work with people is that it’s different for everyone. And I always say, like, you can have 100 people who are all operating the same way around food for 100 different reasons. And that’s why some clinicians hate working with the…

food issues because it’s so, like you can’t plug it into a formula and say this is what it is. You know, have this diagnosis, this is why. You know, and so it’s so interesting. It’s always cool to me when you say like, it’s like a procrastination that’s like, it’s kind of boredom, it’s kind of procrastination, it’s kind of like I’m doing this thing I don’t really wanna do. So maybe I’ll just give myself, and it’s just, I say that because again, if people are listening to this with an air of curiosity about how it functions for them, I just wanna say don’t look

outside of yourself to map it onto anything. It’s going to be different for you than it is for anyone else. And that’s part of what’s so cool about this to me is you get to learn a lot about you if you are willing to stay open and honest and loving when the answers and the clarity come up.

Inna (17:16.846)

So as people start to figure it out, well, and I guess I probably even shouldn’t use the word figure out, as they start to get curious, right? And see some of the signs, as I was saying for me, it’s some of that, you know, just to give examples. think another thing for me is that I grew up in a family where we, or my parents at least, pride themselves on…

finishing everything because you know, they’re starving children in other countries and we have the clean plates aside. And I think this is something that a lot of people can really resonate with. So there is, you know, the boredom procrastination piece. There’s also the piece of like, well, I got to finish it. And there’s also the piece that like, sometimes the food is just so good and you know that the leftovers are not going to taste that good tomorrow. So it’s like, I’m full, but my gosh, it’s so good. just want to keep eating. So I’m sure there’s probably others, but those are kind of the three things I was able to see as patterns for me. So.

Lisa Schlosberg (17:55.115)

Right.

Inna (18:08.979)

Once you see the potential patterns, I’m sure there’s others that people will kind of figure out as they go along. What’s the next step?

Lisa Schlosberg (18:16.896)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I love the ones that you are bringing up are very common and Yeah, so when I say, you know start asking why?

And then you get some answers. So let’s use the example of the clean plate club, because this is something that comes up very often. So you’re sitting, you know, at your dinner table and maybe you’re starting to pay attention to are you actually hungry? That’s always the first that’s the first step, you know, is as you’re trying to navigate, stabilizing, let’s say in your relationship with food, I always say what you want to go for the intention is eat when you’re hungry and stop when you’re full. And so what we’re doing is really reclaiming food.

for homeostatic hunger, which is to feed the body because the body’s hungry. And of course, there are those experiences where it’s like, I’m eating dessert. I always say dessert is the most normalized emotional eating there is. Why are we eating? We’re not eating dessert because we’re hungry. We’re eating dessert because it’s delicious. And there’s nothing wrong with that, right? So knowing, okay, so all of that being said, I think when you start,

getting curious and getting answers to why you’re eating certain things, why you’re eating certain amounts of certain things. Now we can start to do something with it. So the example of you’re sitting at your dinner table, you’re starting to pay attention, you notice that actually you’re not really still hungry, which in itself is a great awareness. That’s a big first step, right? But now there’s like this dissonance of like, you want to honor your body and you want to stop eating because you’re full, but there’s all this food left on your

plate and I want to like take a moment because if this is true for you and you’re listening to this take a moment and feel in your body what starts to happen when I say that like you’re full and you want to stop but there’s this food on the plate so let me ask you how do you feel how do you feel right now when I say that

Inna (20:15.382)

a lot of emotions actually. So I think some of the emotions are guilt, like how can I leave this food? Because you know, they’re starving children. Some of it is I am not hungry anymore, but it’s so good. I just want to keep eating. So it’s almost this like, I don’t know, gluttonous kind of feeling, but like, I just want more. And then I think there’s a little bit of like a not enoughness to it as well because

And maybe this came from going gluten-free early on, before gluten-free was like cool, you know, and before it was really readily available. I mean, I went gluten-free in the early 2000s and like Whole Foods was just starting to open up in New Jersey, in New York City, right? So there wasn’t as many options. And so I needed to fuel myself if I was going somewhere, because you just don’t know what is going to, you know, what you’re going to find. You couldn’t just stop at a convenience store and grab something.

Lisa Schlosberg (20:52.32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Inna (21:13.27)

And so I think there’s also this emotion of like, but if I don’t fill up now, I might be hungry later and there may not be something later, even though that reality doesn’t exist anymore.

Lisa Schlosberg (21:22.666)

Yeah, right, right, scarcity. Okay, great. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for, I’m putting you on the spot a little bit. But I really appreciate it because this is like a perfect illustration of we tend to judge our relationship with food as why is it so emotional? Why would there be so much emotion? And all I just did was like.

Inna (21:28.174)

That’s okay.

Lisa Schlosberg (21:47.277)

pause you in a thought experiment. not even sitting with food, but to just think about it and like create that experience. And now all these feelings are coming up. There’s guilt and stuff that is related to the childhood story of the Clean Your Plate Club. Now there’s also the gluten free days flashing through your eyes. That was years ago. That’s not even happening anymore. Right. And so there’s all this stuff that’s coming up that is emotional. And so if I were like working with someone or or guiding

someone kind of through this. The first thing is you start asking those questions. Why are we eating?

And really allow yourself to tell the truth about the answers. Because I always say logic and emotion don’t speak the same language. A lot of the reason we behave the way we behave around food is emotional. And if we try to logic our way through it, it’s not gonna make sense. And so if we sit there with a judgmental attitude of like, come on, this was 20 years ago, you’re still scared about the gluten-free, you know, it’s like, that’s not helpful. Because this is very really here right now, driving your behavior around food right now, right? So take the judgment out of it, and then this

is the moment where ultimately pause and just allow yourself to feel what you’re feeling. And so the next kind of part to this that I would guide someone through is where do you feel that in your body?

How do you experience that? So you’re talking about the guilt. Ultimately, I hear scarcity, it’s fear. There’s not gonna be enough. I’m not gonna be okay, right? There’s fear. And so then the next question is to really connect with that physically, somatically, physiologically. And that’s where it could be like.

Lisa Schlosberg (23:28.533)

you know, I notice my, my breath is getting shorter or there’s a tightness in my chest or a heaviness in my belly or tingling in my arms or I feel heat. Like we all experience it differently. And you can also, if that doesn’t work, a lot of people have trouble really connecting to the body. I did for a very long time. Don’t worry. You are not broken, but also thinking about how you might express that energy to someone. sometimes I could just say, I don’t know where I feel it, but it feels really fast.

or tight, you know, to just get an idea of like what you’re experiencing emotionally and energetically and then learning how to, and this is a practice, this is not like you’re gonna do this, you know, overnight or all the time, but to really create safety in feeling what you’re feeling. And the best way to do that, I always go back to is the breath.

And so what this could look like in a very granular way is you’re sitting at the table, you take a pause, you notice all these thoughts and feelings are coming up.

Lisa Schlosberg (24:31.713)

just like really slow yourself down. Recognize this is where my favorite mantra comes in. I am uncomfortable. I am not unsafe. You can be uncomfortable. Some of these thoughts are uncomfortable. Some of these feelings are uncomfortable. Some of the sensations are uncomfortable. That’s okay. You are safe. They’re not going to kill you the way your animal brain says they are.

Inna (24:40.738)

you

Lisa Schlosberg (24:55.457)

They are not life threatening. This is not fatal. This is just a moment of emotional energy moving through you and you can handle it because you’re a human being. You were designed for this. And so if you can breathe through it.

and let that move and pass and be expressed, very likely you’re now gonna return to the dinner table and be like, yeah, I don’t need to eat all that.

Inna (25:23.564)

Yeah, that makes so much sense because well, first just the break and the breathing, right? That breaks the cycle of eat, eat, eat, eat, eat. But then I love what you’re saying about noticing the feeling, feeling where in your body you feel it and connecting that and using that somatic experience. That makes so, so much sense. Yeah.

Lisa Schlosberg (25:42.956)

Yeah. And that’s why I always say, just for what it’s worth, like, you know, I’ve said you can’t solve an emotional problem with a physical solution, but I also am always saying if you’re eating when you’re not hungry, it doesn’t mean that the hunger isn’t real. It just means the hunger isn’t physical. So it can’t be satiated with food.

And so when these things come up, we have these opportunities to really question and get curious about what is it that I’m hungry for? What is it that I’m needing or seeking? And this is why it’s a little bit different with like the clean your plate mindset because that’s more of like a mindset kind of thing. But.

But especially when we’re using food more emotionally, like I feel, you know, feel anxious, I feel bored. By the way, people think a bored is not an emotion. Some refer to it as the least tolerable human emotion, especially now because we’re so overstimulated. So if you’re bored, it counts as emotional eating. If you’re sad, if you’re anxious. And so then the question really becomes, what is it that I’m turning to food for?

Sometimes it’s comfort, sometimes it’s connection, sometimes it’s power, right? There’s a lot of ways that it can function. And then the question becomes, how else can I meet that need? Even if it’s escape or distraction or soothing or numbing, those are valid things that we need sometimes. It’s not about not needing them. It’s about knowing where else you can get them so that you’re not always turning to food to meet a need that it really can’t meet ultimately. So.

It depends, it always kind of depends on the situation a little bit, but I just want to say that because you can come at it from a few different angles. Either way, you you’re breathing through the emotional discomfort of doing something different, or you’re getting curious about how else you can support yourself outside of food.

Inna (27:33.342)

You mentioned that as you were going through your journey, you were eating your feelings because you didn’t know how to feel your feelings. So is this something that you went through yourself as well? Like what are some of the things that you did to learn how to feel your feelings?

Lisa Schlosberg (27:47.114)

Yeah, remember, I remember at the time, so after I lost a lot of weight very quickly, I really felt, I remember actually telling my therapist at the time that I felt like my shield of armor was gone. And I didn’t expect that to happen because before my weight loss, I really hardcore believed that.

I had no emotional connection at all to food or my body or I was completely dissociated. I had no sense of embodiment. My body always felt like it was a foreign object that belonged to someone else. I thought everyone felt that way about their bodies. I did. I really, didn’t know. And so when I lost weight, I remember saying, I feel like my shield of armor is gone. And I felt so naked emotionally and vulnerable.

all the time. I was crawling in my skin. so yeah, I remember this feeling of… I felt like I was walking through the world as an open wound and I had to really…

figure that out. Like how to survive here without putting, you know, being over 300 pounds again as a way to cope with that. How do I learn how to move through the world as an emotional being? And this is why I say, you know, we’re spiritual beings. However you want to understand that scientifically, spiritually, but for me, what it meant was I have feelings. There are parts of me.

that are more than my body, that are more than physical. I have thoughts, I have feelings, there’s this energy, intuition, however we want to understand it, right? And so, yeah, so I had to learn.

Lisa Schlosberg (29:37.688)

how to live out here this way in honesty and authenticity where I’m not just denying every uncomfortable experience or comfortable experience I have. And so some of the things I remember, I was in therapy at the time, which was very helpful. And journaling became a huge part of my daily practice.

of just getting clear on what was going on internally and having that on paper. I started doing things like meditation and breath work and yoga and spending time in nature, being intentional about spending time with my friends and in social settings where I felt safe and connected. And so I started doing all of these kind of like mind, body healing techniques.

that I would never have done in a million years before. These are all the things that I thought were so woo-woo and I had no interest. But at the end of my weight loss, it really was this huge awakening because it became clear to me not only that health and weight are not the same thing, but that health was holistic. Health meant mental health and emotional health and spiritual health and social health, not just physical health.

And so I started kind of integrating these things as a way to balance myself out. And I mean, in some in some ways, very oversimplified. That’s what my life has looked like for the last decade is I take care of my physical health. I’m so mindful of what I’m eating. I still exercise regularly. I still am very intentional about keeping my body healthy, but I’m also very intentional about keeping my mind healthy and my heart.

healthy and my you know, my soul fulfilled and all the parts of me as a human to balance that out. So those are some of the things but I think ultimately, you know, sometimes I get the question like, what’s the number one thing that changed everything for you, you know, and, and, and ultimately, it’s, it’s being willing to tell the truth about the fact that I’m an emotional being that I’m a spiritual being.

Lisa Schlosberg (31:52.973)

that there’s more to me than I can see or touch or track or measure or weigh and living side by side with that embodied in that.

Inna (32:02.254)

Yeah. And I think this is so huge and this is something we talk so much about in our community and especially for people with Hashimoto’s and thyroid issues, our thyroid is in our fifth chakra, right? So this is the chakra of expression, being authentic, saying the truth. And what’s really interesting and what I kind of narrowed in more so at least for myself and a lot of people that I work with is it’s speaking the truth for all of you.

Lisa Schlosberg (32:16.556)

Yeah.

Inna (32:30.028)

in all parts of you, right? Because I think so often people say, yeah, I tell the truth. Like I tell my husband, like if I’m mad at him, I tell him, I’m so mad at you, right? Or whatever it is. But I think people forget sometimes that we have our inner family, right? So like an internal family systems, right? We have like our inner child. And then we also have them, you know, an inner 10 year old and a 12 year old. And then like a teenager who is probably a rebel because of some of the other things. you know, and I think,

One of the things that I get told a lot by, you know, coaches I’ve worked with and people over the years is that, you know, your throat chakra really needs more opening. And I’ve been working on that for a long time, right? Part of my platform and doing what I’m doing for people with Hashimoto’s and really like speaking what I want to speak so that they know that there’s hope and there’s all the things that you can do. And what’s interesting is I kept hearing that I’m like, listen, I’m talking. I don’t know what you’re even saying, right? Like to me, like.

Like, I’m using my voice. I’m not holding back, at least not nearly as much as I did when I was younger. But then it was that realization, my goodness. It’s that inner, right? It’s little Ina, five-year-old Ina who was not given a voice, who was told that children should be seen and not heard, whose feelings didn’t matter, who had to do something just because.

That’s how mom wanted it. And so I know, you know, she was too young to understand why it’s important to play the piano, but it is. And one day when she gets bigger, then she’ll understand, right? So it’s giving her the voice, which was a big realization for me.

Lisa Schlosberg (33:58.508)

us.

Yes, I love that. I love that. And that’s yeah, that’s everything. And I think it’s it’s so connected to everything that we’re talking about here, because very often when we notice, okay, I’m turning to food, because there’s this big reaction happening in me, or I’m having this big emotional experience. If we meet that with, again, logic or judgment of like, why? Why are you feeling this way? You really want to think about how would you speak to a child? How would you speak to a

And so instead of turning towards yourself with this judgment, you know, the same way that many of us were raised that is like I’ll give you something and cry about right? It’s like we that’s the way a lot of us know how to parent ourselves because it’s what was modeled. But this is the moment. This is why I always say we’re using the relationship you have with food as the mechanism through which you learn how to reparent yourself.

We’re using the relationship you have with food as the mechanism through which you learn how to reparent yourself. Because when you have these issues with food and you can turn towards yourself like a loving parent and say, tell me more about what you’re feeling. It’s okay that you’re feeling this way. Your feelings don’t scare me. I’m gonna sit here and hang out with you while you’re having your temper tantrum. Whatever it is, right? That’s reparenting.

And that’s the internal family system that gets brought into the relationship we have with food. That’s how I teach it and talk about it all the time. And so that’s why I go back to that question I mentioned earlier is when we are parenting ourselves around food and you can say, know, why am I hungry or why am I eating?

Lisa Schlosberg (35:42.817)

I, the question that I give to parents all the time when I’m having this conversation about their children is to really ask, are you hungry? Are you physically hungry? Or do you just feel like eating? And then that, because I used to work with kids and I used to love modeling this for parents, because if you can ask a question like that, non-judgmentally.

And you can just really, there’s no agenda, there’s no expectation. I’m genuinely curious, is it physical or emotional? Very often, kids will be really quick to be like, yeah, no, I’m not hungry. I just feel like eating. And it’s like, great, okay, thank you for telling me that. Awesome, I can totally relate. Sometimes I feel like eating when I’m not hungry too. There’s nothing bad about it. And, and what we’re trying to do is practice not eating something when our body isn’t hungry.

So I wonder what else maybe we could do right now. What do you need? And this is where I always, and I had a client once who practiced this with her son.

And then she took out, this is how I would say to do it, with your internal family system and your own inner child or an actual outer child, is what one of my clients likes to say, is when you have that moment of a child saying, I just feel like eating, or your inner child saying, just feel like eating. That’s where I would go to the Feelings Wheel, feelingswheel.com, and you can look at all these feeling words, right? And then it’s just like, okay, cool, so feel like eating is not an emotion. What are you feeling?

Inna (37:02.19)

Best tool ever.

Lisa Schlosberg (37:11.63)

What are you feeling? And this is where a kid too can point out, I’m feeling bored, I’m feeling lonely, I’m feeling sad, I’m feeling anxious. And then that’s a moment of connection. Whether that is actual human child and actual human parent or your internal family system, that’s the moment of connection. That is, you’re feeling something.

You don’t need food. Listen, you can have all the food, right? But you don’t need food. What you need is to be seen and heard and met and loved in this vulnerable emotion that you’re experiencing. And me as the parent, inner, outer, that’s my role. That’s my job. That’s my responsibility is to meet you where you are and…

facilitate that moment of connection. So that’s exactly how it kind of all comes together is it’s emotional eating. But when you insert loving reparenting to it, that’s when you can actually change your behaviors around food in a way that is sustainable.

Inna (38:16.94)

Yeah. And I think this is so helpful for everyone, especially, you know, I’m in my mid forties and I think our generation and again, I’m generalizing a little bit, but you know, our parents, it was different, right? I mean, they didn’t have the tools that we have. There wasn’t nearly as much awareness on more conscious parenting and acknowledgement and all that. And so I think for so many of us, when we were growing up,

there really wasn’t that validation. And I’ve learned that if a child doesn’t get validation, they then don’t know how to model that for themselves. And so they’re going to be seeking validation from the outside, right? Whether that’s from peers and then peer pressure or coworkers or whatever it may be. And so I think it’s that validation skill.

that we all need to learn or learn more of because it sounds like that’s exactly what we’re doing is we’re finding the feeling and then validating it for ourselves.

Lisa Schlosberg (39:16.047)

Well said, that is exactly what it boils down to, ultimately.

Inna (39:20.492)

Yeah. Now let’s talk a little bit about electronics. And I bring this up because, a couple of things. I remember when I was younger and lived by myself in New York City or even maybe lived with others, but maybe my roommates were out. And there was this thing like, I am going to watch a show and I’m so excited to watch a show, but I can’t just sit and watch a show. Let me prep my dinner or let me get a snack or let me get a dessert. Right.

so that I can watch the show. it was this, like it always just went hand in hand. I don’t do this anymore because I’m more conscious of it, but it used to happen. And what’s interesting is I’m noticing my five-year-old do this too. And she actually says, similarly to what you said before, where she would have dinner and then she’ll say, like, can I be done? And, know, we’ll make sure she knows, like even at five, she has to eat her protein, like, and all that. And I…

You know, I try to sort of have this, we don’t have the clean plate society obviously, but we explain to her the benefit, right? Like you want to eat your protein before you eat these other things that are not going to be as fueling for your body because we want to grow and fuel our body. And then she’ll say, I’m not hungry anymore. I’m like, okay, great. Like you had some protein, like there’s no need. You don’t need to finish your pasta. Like, you know, eat some veggies, but like no need for the other stuff. But then she gets a little bit of iPad time.

And when she gets on her iPad, the minute she starts, she says, I’m hungry. Can I have some apples? Can I have some fruit? And again, all healthy things, right? But literally five minutes prior, right, you said, I’m not hungry, I’m done. So, what’s interesting, what I find interesting is that the iPad is obviously, well, we think, right, curing any potential boredom, right? Because…

There’s just a lot of stimulation that happens. So it’s not that, but what is it about electronics that makes us want to eat more? Cause I’m assuming that’s not just her, it’s a lot of people.

Lisa Schlosberg (41:19.759)

Yeah, it is. It is a lot of people and this is also, know, every adult who like hears the Netflix, you know, da-da, and all of a sudden it’s like, need a snack. We can’t sit here without it, right? And it’s like, it’s so relatable. So, okay, a few things. it’s, it really is, I think, one of those things where I…

Inna (41:29.376)

I’m sorry.

Lisa Schlosberg (41:41.838)

don’t think I can sit here and tell you this is what it is. This is why. This is why people like to eat when they are watching a screen or on something electronic. But there’s a couple theories that I find compelling. One is that I think there’s something that happens where if you are, let’s say, getting stimulated from a screen.

or you’re watching a movie or a show or something like that, or even just scrolling through TikTok or Instagram, you’re getting stimulated. And it actually, in my, in my theory here, would be almost the opposite of what you’re suggesting where you say like, well, she’s getting stimulated from that. So she doesn’t need it from this other thing. Because sometimes what happens is stimulation wants more stimulation.

And you know, I think about a conversation I’ve had recently where I remember one time my therapist recently in the last few years said to me, what do you do when you notice that you’re moving too fast? And my answer was after I like checked in and thought about it, I said I speed up. I get even faster. Because that’s,

how we operate, know, an object in motion stays in motion. It’s like we keep kind of moving in a direction. So one theory that I have to answer your question is that it’s almost like something starts being stimulated and it wants more and more and more. And that actually makes total sense for some people that it can work that way. It also reminds me of another thing my brilliant therapist said to me over the last few years where she was talking about for her.

She calls it the sushi and sake metaphor where she was like, I noticed that every single time I would go to get sushi, I would get sake, right? Sushi and sake and sushi and sake and every time. And then it got to a point where I couldn’t even fathom having sushi without sake. Right. And part of it is also just the neurobiological mechanism of the association. The hippocampus is the part of the brain that stores memories. And so there’s also something to be said for the repeated pattern happening over and over again.

Lisa Schlosberg (43:52.642)

And every time I pick up my iPad, I eat food. Every time I pick up my iPad, I eat food. So now I pick up my iPad, I need food. The brain does that. We become habituated to behaviors, to substances, to feelings, to physiology. So if it’s also something that’s become somewhat of a habit, part of it is we’re habitual beings. So that’s kind of, in some ways, how I would speak to that. And then…

in terms of the, and then the other thing just about screens in general is because now in some ways we can talk about the very fine line of having boundaries around food and eating, but also not having it be really rigid and controlling and like diet, culturey, right? And so this comes up sometimes when I suggest that parents turn off the TV while they’re eating with their kids and things like that. And

So I just want to throw it out there if anyone needs this is the reason for that is not because TV is bad or watching TV while you eat is bad. Nothing is bad or wrong. We don’t need judgment and shame around it. But because we want to pay attention to our bodies, we want to eat when we’re hungry and stop when we’re full because that’s loving to ourselves. And when we’re watching TV,

because the brain gets really preoccupied with the TV that it’s watching, it doesn’t check in with hunger and fullness. And so there’s nothing wrong with doing it. But if we’re trying to foster the generation of intuitive eaters who don’t have to go through the diet culture that we did and all of that stuff, this is one of those things where it’s like, you can have your TV and your food. You can have your iPad and your snack. can. And

It’s my job as your parent to support you in your health and your wellbeing. And one of the ways that I can do that is say, you can have your iPad and you can have your snack, but let’s pay attention to maybe both of them happening at the same time, or how do we want to navigate that? When kids are old enough, can we collaborate around that? You know, things like that.

Inna (46:07.67)

Yeah, I love what you’re saying also about what’s loving to your body because I think so many of us, especially with thyroid issues, minimize a lot of the stuff we’ve had to go through a lot. There’s a lot we had to shove down. And so it’s sometimes hard for us to even just grasp this concept of being loving to ourselves because so much and I think women in general, right, but especially those with Hashimoto’s and autoimmunity, like there is this like

let me do everything for everyone else. I don’t matter as much. Right. And so the thought of like being loving to ourselves can feel foreign. and I actually had this conversation not that long ago with one of my coaches about food and you know, she was saying like, you know, I get the food tastes good. Right. And I know you don’t want to leave it for leftovers because it’s not going to taste as good. But the fact of the matter is

It’s not kind to stuff your body beyond where it wants to go. And I’ve just never thought of it that way. I’m like, I am being unkind to myself. Like, no, it’s like, you think I’m being so kind. It’s something so good and I’m giving you more because it’s so good, but it’s actually the opposite.

Lisa Schlosberg (47:16.048)

Yes, yes, yes. And I so appreciate that take. I feel like this is a conversation I’ve been having a lot lately where there is this really big, in my experience, like tremendous misconception about what compassion actually looks like and what the embodiment and integration of self-compassion really means, especially around food and eating. Because as soon as we start saying things like, you know, it’s not, you know, if you consider like not eating when you’re not hungry.

a lot of people will immediately, because of the very valid dieting trauma, turn it into like, now it’s back, you know, this is a diet and this is restriction and this is, and it’s like, not at all. That’s not at all what it is. This is actually learning how to be kind and compassionate. It’s self care. It’s self care. But sometimes it takes that like, you know, mind blowing moment of like, wait, this is kind, right? Okay. Did not think of it that way. Yeah.

Inna (48:11.722)

Yep. Yeah, for sure. Lisa, this has been so insightful and you know, I think everybody has some type of an emotional connection to food. It could be a little bit, it could be in the middle, it could be a lot, but this is something that everyone needs to hear. So thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared and for being here. Now, for those who want to contact you, who want to connect with you, where can they go to do that, to learn more, to…

Lisa Schlosberg (48:40.068)

Yeah, thank you.

Inna (48:40.492)

you know, learn from you.

Lisa Schlosberg (48:42.32)

So you can find me on Instagram, lisa.schlossberg, S-C-H-L-O-S-B-E-R-G. The Out of the Cave, yeah, thank you. The other day someone called me Lisa last name. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. The Out of the Cave podcast is my podcast on Apple and Spotify. Outofthecave.health is my website. And if you wanna email me, lisaschlossberg.gmail.com. But if you are interested in learning more about my work,

Inna (48:49.656)

We’ll post that in the show notes too.

Inna (48:55.886)

Lisa Schlosberg (49:12.274)

working with me. You can follow the website, DM me on Instagram, email me, anything like that. There is another retreat coming up in the summer at the Omega Institute in New York, July 12th. So if you want to work with me in person, there’s also that available to you.

Inna (49:28.43)

That all sounds amazing. We’ll put all that on the show notes and thank you so much again for being here. It such a pleasure connecting with you and I look forward to keeping in touch.

Lisa Schlosberg (49:37.146)

Thank you, you too.