When it comes to Hashimoto’s, the real issue is not just the thyroid. It is immune confusion. The immune system loses tolerance, begins reacting inappropriately, and creates inflammation that can damage thyroid tissue over time. That is why true healing is not about stimulating the immune system, but about helping it regulate, communicate clearly, and know what belongs in the body and what does not.
In today’s episode, Inna welcomes Michael Antonelli back to the show to explore immune modulation through an emerging and fascinating area of research: breast milk bioactives, especially human equivalent lactoferrin. They discuss how these compounds may help improve gut signaling, support iron balance, and create a healthier environment for the immune system to function more intelligently.
This conversation is especially important for those with Hashimoto’s or other autoimmune conditions who feel like they have already tried gut protocols, probiotics, and anti-inflammatory supplements but still do not feel fully regulated.
Why Immune Modulation Matters in Hashimoto’s
Hashimoto’s is an autoimmune condition, which means the goal is not to force the immune system into more activity. The goal is to reduce confusion, calm unnecessary signaling, and support more intelligent immune responses.
Michael explains that many gut and immune support strategies focus on adding probiotics, prebiotics, or other helpful compounds. But if the environment is still inflamed, permeable, or confused, those tools may not work as well as hoped. Instead of simply feeding and seeding the gut, there may need to be a first step that helps clean up the terrain so proper signaling can happen again.
This is where breast milk mimetics come in. Researchers have been studying some of the natural bioactive components found in breast milk to understand how they help build a resilient immune system in infants and whether those same signals can help restore order in an adult gut.
What Breast Milk Bioactives Can Teach Us
Michael shares that scientists have spent years looking at compounds such as human milk oligosaccharides, lactoferrin, and osteopontin. These substances help establish healthy communication between the gut and immune system very early in life.
The question became whether similar signals could be used in adults whose systems have been under stress, inflamed, and dysregulated for years. According to the research Michael has been following, the answer appears to be yes.
These breast milk mimetics are not acting by stimulating the immune system, but by helping create the kind of environment where the immune system can regulate itself more effectively. This can be especially relevant in autoimmune conditions where the body is constantly overreacting and staying on alert.
The Gut, Leaky Gut, and Why Environment Matters First
Inna and Michael discuss how many people with Hashimoto’s already know the importance of gut health, intestinal permeability, and inflammation. Michael uses a simple analogy: if a house is still on fire, it does not matter how beautifully you remodel it. If the roof is still leaking, fixing the inside will only go so far.
That same principle applies to the gut. Before trying to populate it with more beneficial bacteria, the body may first need help repairing the environment and restoring communication. When the gut barrier is compromised and immune signaling is chaotic, simply adding probiotics may not be enough.
This is why the focus here is not only on rebuilding, but also on creating the conditions where rebuilding can actually work.
What Lactoferrin Is and Why It Matters
One of the most exciting compounds discussed in this episode is lactoferrin. Lactoferrin is naturally produced by the body and is also highly concentrated in breast milk. Michael describes it as a key modulator that can support iron balance, immune regulation, antifungal activity, antimicrobial activity, and even cellular cleanup processes.
It may be especially relevant for people with Hashimoto’s because iron issues are so common in thyroid conditions. Some people have low iron, while others have iron stored improperly, such as elevated ferritin with poor iron utilization. In both cases, the body is not handling iron the way it should.
Lactoferrin appears to help the body regulate iron more intelligently, supporting balance in whichever direction is needed. This is a major shift from the usual approach of simply adding iron or trying to lower ferritin without addressing the deeper immune and gut dysfunction involved.
Why Human Equivalent Lactoferrin Is Different
While bovine lactoferrin supplements have been around for some time, Michael explains that newer developments are focused on creating human equivalent lactoferrin. Instead of being derived from cow’s milk, this version is produced through precision fermentation in a way that mimics the structure of human lactoferrin.
This matters because the body is much more likely to recognize and respond to something that closely resembles its own signaling molecules. It also avoids dairy and bovine related concerns, which is especially important for people who are dairy sensitive or autoimmune.
Michael explains that this process involves years of development, including lab work, fermentation refinement, safety testing, and human studies. The result is a bioactive ingredient designed to function much more like the lactoferrin naturally made by the human body.
How Lactoferrin May Support Immune Tolerance
The conversation then turns to immune pathways. Michael explains that in autoimmune conditions, immune cells are not responding appropriately. T helper cells, natural killer cells, B cells, inflammatory messengers like NF-kappa B, and other parts of the immune system are overly activated and no longer distinguishing clearly between threat and self.
Rather than forcing more activity, the goal is to help the immune system know when to act and when to stand down. Lactoferrin may support this by helping orchestrate a more intelligent immune response, calming excessive inflammatory signaling and improving the body’s ability to self-correct.
This is what makes the conversation about immune modulation so different from the typical language around immune boosting. For Hashimoto’s, the body does not need more alarm. It needs more precision and tolerance.
The Connection Between Lactoferrin and Iron
One of the biggest takeaways from this episode is the connection between immune health and iron regulation. Iron is essential for energy, thyroid function, hair growth, menstrual health, and many other systems, but many people do not absorb or utilize it properly.
Michael explains that lactoferrin may help the body better modulate iron on its own, supporting absorption when levels are low and helping restore healthier balance when iron storage patterns are abnormal. This makes it a potentially powerful tool for those who have not responded well to traditional iron supplements or who struggle with complex iron patterns common in chronic inflammation.
What It Is Combined With and Why
Michael also explains that the product discussed in this episode combines human equivalent lactoferrin with a human milk oligosaccharide called 2-FL and a specific heat-treated postbiotic.
The 2-FL acts as a supportive carrier and helps reinforce the signaling environment. The postbiotic is included because of its role in helping support tight junctions and gut barrier integrity. Together, these ingredients were chosen to work synergistically for immune and gut resilience rather than just as a random blend of trendy gut ingredients.
Importantly, the formula avoids dairy and avoids common prebiotics like FOS and inulin, which can sometimes create gas, bloating, or feed unwanted organisms in sensitive individuals.
The full formula is called ImmunoRestore+ and you can see it all here. Please use code “RESTORE” for 10% off.
Who Might Benefit From This
While the episode centers on Hashimoto’s and autoimmune conditions, Michael notes that the potential applications may extend much further. He mentions areas such as general immune resilience, healthy aging, women’s health, active individuals, and possibly even neuroinflammatory conditions where the gut-immune-brain connection is relevant.
Want to try ImmunoRestore? Use code “RESTORE” for 10% off at checkout.
Connect with Michael Antonelli
Website: www.healthgev.com
Instagram: @Healthgevity
FULL EPISODE TRANSRIPTInna (00:01.324)
Michael, I am so excited to have you back on Thyroid Mystery Solved, Hashimoto’s, and Hypothyroidism Revealed. Welcome again.
Michael Antonelli (00:08.923)
It is great to be back with your community. Thank you for the invitation.
Inna (00:12.502)
Of course. And today we are going to dive into immune modulation because when it comes to Hashimoto’s or really any autoimmune, we know that it’s not specifically a thyroid problem or, you know, if it’s another autoimmune, it’s the problem with the joints of the brain or whatever it may be. Right. It’s this immune confusion. And we have to be so careful and so particular when it comes to these things, because there’s so many theories and products and diets out there that.
talk about the immune system, but in autoimmunity and Hashimoto’s specifically, it’s really not about stimulating that immune system, right? It’s really about balancing it, modulating it, and, you know, just creating that inner knowing of what’s actually self and what’s not. And you are someone who is always researching and you always find, you know, just such interesting research and such interesting connections. And you really.
You’re one of the people that is at the forefront of what’s coming out in the research. And I know one of the things that you’ve been looking into is breast milk and the components of that and what exactly that could do to the immune system and how people who are not babies can benefit from that. So tell me more about that.
Michael Antonelli (01:32.554)
Absolutely. And you hit it right on, right? It’s not forcing a signal, but it’s actually cleaning up the environment in which our systems are operating in. And we’ve been looking at it in a variety of different angles. And I started on this journey over a decade ago when we were looking at ways of ingredients that are responsible for building the immune system and microbiome of infants, right? And of course, all signs point to the power of breast milk.
But through researchers, especially a group at a UC San Diego and great team out in California, started doing research on a lot of the ingredients or actives or bioactives occurring in breast milk and looking at potential opportunities to deliver these ingredients to an adult gut. And what did that do? So, you know, we saw its importance in establishing the environment, but can we help clean up an environment?
that has been confused and muddied for years upon years. And what we saw very quickly was, yes, you can utilize what we’re calling breast milk memetics or unique bioactive signals to help clean up the terrain. And this really, in my ideas, with our researchers, with our frontline providers, we started looking at
potentially why some other solutions fall up short. And if a lot of people are listening, you you hear about the role of probiotics, the role of supporting a healthy gut. But what if feeding and seeding and the gut with pre, pro, postbiotics, if we’re not ready for that yet, we have to actually think more systematic with actually cleaning up the environment for effective communication. And so we started looking at things like
human milk oleosaccharides and lactoferrin and even osteoponin. are the constituents that make up breast milk. There’s other things occurring, but we start looking at over the last decade, more and more research happening to fix the signaling, to set our bodies up to correct itself. And really, really unique things can happen in level set to be less reliant on even some supplements or even
Michael Antonelli (03:57.929)
pharmaceutical option. I’m really excited to dive into this deeper with you today.
Inna (04:02.124)
Yeah. So the gut of course is such a central point for our immune system. It’s not everything, but it’s such a big part. so tell us a little bit about how balancing that gut environment actually specifically helps with that. When we say building of the immune system, it’s really building an immune system that’s resilient, that is very understanding of, hey, this is you, this is not, right? And creating that modulation.
Michael Antonelli (04:28.465)
Absolutely. Right. So I’m sure there’s been a lot of buzzwords on all your episodes. We talk about leaky gut. We talk about tight junctions. We talk about this intestinal permeability and this ongoing issue. So I always like to talk in analogies. Right. So we could talk about rebuilding a house, but if it’s still on fire, what is that going to do? Or we could talk about remodeling the house, but if there’s still the leak in the roof, it’s probably not the most effective use of our time. So when we think about
the system of our microbiome and how we’re really run by bacteria, it’s not to say that that particular species of probiotic is going to be the missing key to fix some of this miscommunication from self and foreign invaders. So how do we look at empowering our innate immunity, our adaptive immunity, knowing that the hub all leads to gut health?
And so looking at empowering and re-inoculating the field, then we see that there’s a better opportunity to introduce things like immunoglobulins or butyrate or the pre or post-biotics or probiotics. And that’s where we start seeing this orchestra of immune response be at its height. And it’s not to say this is a quick fix where on day one,
you’re going to feel like a new person. But what we’re trying to do is re support the foundation of our body because all our systems are integrated and we know the root of functional medicine and the tree and the roots is that there’s something here where we don’t want to put everything under the kitchen sink, but if we could be very timely with introducing certain unique bioactives at the right time in the right dose,
does this have a domino effect? We talk about the role of iron and iron suppression and modulating iron, especially with thyroid issues. And so we’re starting to connect the dots with these underlying emerging themes that come back to also healthy gut, healthier immune system.
Inna (06:47.214)
Yeah. Now you mentioned iron and you’re right, so many people with thyroid issues have low iron or their iron may seem okay, however, they may not be utilizing their iron properly, which is really, really common. And so they have a lot of symptoms like fatigue and hair thing and hair loss and being cold all the time and irregular cycles and just a lot of different hormone imbalances. And a lot of times too, iron is really important for a couple of specific thyroid types.
in terms of the production of hormones as well. So talk to us a little bit about what this iron deficiency, but even if someone’s taking iron, this not being able to properly utilize iron and how that’s related to some of what’s going on in the gut and the research that you’ve been doing.
Michael Antonelli (07:36.529)
Yeah. And I think iron is going to be a conversation, a topic that’s going to get more and more attention because it’s such a critical lever, not only for energy, but thyroid support and just how our immune system operates. so looking at ways and if you’re listening, like I’m already on an iron supplement or I’ve taken iron supplements and, you know, my lab still feel abnormal. Where do I go from here? What we’re looking at is emerging research around lactoferrin.
Lactoferrin really being the key modulator to helping the body on its own modulate levels for you and where you need your iron to be. This could be supplementation on its own or be part of a bigger plan with let’s say an iron bisglycinate or GI friendly iron to help get your levels either up. But if you have high iron and you want to lower it, we’re seeing that lactoferrin is an emerging
therapeutic option to bring balance to your body where you need it. again, so much is tied back to that immune gut correlation. But Lactoferrin, I like to refer to it as pink gold. And you look more in the data, there was a published study a few years ago calling it this pink gold marvelous miracle molecule, because it’s not only great as an antifungal agent, antimicrobial, helping
Inna (08:49.07)
you
Michael Antonelli (09:03.142)
balance iron, but we look at iron levels as we develop chronic disease, especially autoimmune issues. If we look at athletes and iron stores that are being depleted, long distance runners, you’re going to see iron being a very critical area for supplementation. But even for inducing autophagy and cleanup of our cellular health, this has been, I feel, something that’s been largely misunderstood.
because to date a lot of the supplements that contain lactoferrin are bovine origin, so they’re foreign to our body. And in a lot of cases, especially when we’re talking about autoimmune, where you want to keep it simple.
Inna (09:39.918)
you
And lactoferrin is derived from milk, correct? Typically.
Michael Antonelli (09:47.517)
That’s right. We’re naturally producing it in our bodies and it is very potent in breast milk. And so that’s kind of the original story where we look at a lot of the studies. There’s no shortage of studies on lactoferrin. Even how well as a bovine derived milk as how many supplement companies are delivering it. For many, it does make a big difference, but what we are unlocking is novel ways of mimicking how the body produces it. And that being the unlock mechanism.
where the body recognizes it as its own.
Inna (10:21.474)
Right. So instead of taking a supplement, electropharynx supplement that’s derived from cow’s milk that the body’s not going to treat as its own because it’s similar, but yet not quite because we’re not cows, that we’re actually making our own electropharynx or allowing the body to mimic what our own electropharynx would be like, correct?
Michael Antonelli (10:43.57)
That’s right. And there’s been a lot of advances. we hear a lot around precision fermentation and things like CRISPR. And on a lab world, what’s happening on an R &D side is a lot of efforts and funding to find ways through fermentation of yeast to modulate yeast to mimic proteins that are human equivalent to what we’re producing. And in terms of lactoferrin, it’s a really unique way to start and
Some of the scientists and food researchers that we’ve partnered with a few years back, what set this in motion was the infant formula shortage. When a lot of the scientists out there said, there’s gotta be a better way. How do we reduce dependency in the supply chain and create molecules that we could safely produce at greater supplies to avoid this from ever happening again? And similar to
brewing beer, not that I don’t have experience brewing beer, many of your listeners probably don’t either. But the more you brew it, the better it is, right? And so when we look at what’s happening in a lab setting, and I had the pleasure and honor of actually being in the lab and seeing on an R &D side, how are they creating human equivalent protein development? And it is so fascinating. And then the end result after thousands.
Inna (11:43.8)
me either.
Inna (12:05.868)
Yeah, how does it work? So what did they do? They take a yeast and then they ferment the yeast.
Michael Antonelli (12:11.265)
over and over again till it matches or mimics the original source. And so, and I don’t know if you have any guests that have been in the probiotic fermentation field, but that’s also how a lot of the ID verified species are made, right? Whether it’s that milk or there’s that base where you’re going to be creating or growing the flora and it, do you replicate it? And then it looks more like, how do you bake a cake, right? How do you make sure that you can
replicate that particular ingredient long-term for sustainability. And so that’s what these scientists are doing day in and day out until they get to that original source goal, which in this case is actual breast milk. And then they could splice out different proteins. And for this case, they can pull out breast milk derived lactoferrin, which is unique and identical to what the body makes.
and through series and thousands and thousands of fermentation options, they’re able to mimic this replica in the body. But then that’s when the fun just starts. Then they’ll do cell cultures, they’ll do animal testing, then they’ll do human testing to see is this performing the same way that human derived lactoferrin is? Is this breaking down into the same peptides that it is?
And once all those are checked, you can then continue the next steps into ensuring safety and compliance to utilize this in nutritional supplements and also the end goal in infant formula.
Inna (13:50.56)
Wow. And so they’ve done all of that already, those steps, right?
Michael Antonelli (13:55.762)
That’s right. Yeah, this is years going on behind the scene. I think when we were talking about what topics to discuss, this to me is one of those topics that not only we’re most passionate about that I’ve been most excited about because we’ve not only done all the heavy lifting, but we’ve had this material integrated into practices for the last 18 months and have really seen some incredible outcomes, especially with tricky patients that have tried so much and yet still
Inna (13:58.606)
Mm.
Michael Antonelli (14:25.839)
aren’t feeling optimized or at their best. And so this human equivalent lactoferrin has been one that I feel if your listeners are hearing for the first time today, could be one to potentially explore in a greater way to say, does this compliment my current protocol and what my current health goals are?
Inna (14:43.458)
Yeah. And it’s amazing, you know, how much research needs to go in for that to happen and to make sure that it is exactly identical to human. It’s interesting that it comes from a yeast, but then again, so many things come from yeast, right? Antibiotics, enzymes, everything. And I think what’s important also for people to know is that even though it comes from a yeast, there is no actual fungus in the end product. Cause people do get nervous like, I already have Candida or Candida was one of my triggers for Hashimoto’s or I’ve been exposed to mold, but
The yeast is just, it’s that culture and then there’s no actual yeast in the product.
Michael Antonelli (15:17.551)
Yeah, and I’m so glad you brought that up because it is an important thing to clarify. once it’s produced, you cleave it off and you leave the base behind. So yeah, this isn’t going to spark Candida or LPS or Zonulin or all those areas that we’re actually trying to build resilience to. This is going to be part of the solution.
Inna (15:38.744)
So tell us, with lactoferrin specifically, especially this bioidentical human lactoferrin, how does it modulate the immune system? Is it the regulation of iron? I mean, I’m sure there’s probably so many different pathways of how it does that.
Michael Antonelli (15:52.776)
Yeah, there’s a few pathways, right? So we look at, I would say one of the main things is, you know, regulating TPO levels. It’s going to also orchestrate a immune response. So when we think about the T helper cells, when we think about regulating things like NF kappa B and the interleukins and making sure that inflammation isn’t excessive, right? So we’re resolving inflammation. But again, freeing up the body to not be confused about the signaling.
that it focuses on actually identifying one to respond, right? That whole adaptive and innate response or one to stand put. And so it is allowing the body to be more efficient from a systems component, which is really unique, right? We think about iron, I think it’s largely emerging as a bigger player than originally we thought. And maybe we…
underappreciated because we didn’t have the right solutions in the toolbox at that point. And now even when we launched, we didn’t truly know the power it was going to have in so many different patient groups. And that’s been really exciting to see because it’s not even just a female thing. We’re even seeing male patients that have iron storage issues and helping the body take out the guesswork and restore that function.
Inna (17:12.152)
Yeah, because so often with inflammation, we may have low iron levels, but very high storage and ferritin levels. And, you know, the really the only thing recommended is go, you know, get your blood drawn, do a blood donation, right, to get rid of those excess ferritin. But the actual iron in the body isn’t high. It’s just the storage is high that then can affect the liver and cause a lot of other negative things. So that’s really, really helpful to know. Now, Michael, just for everyone listening,
In terms of the immune system, because I think as much as people know about it, I know I like to know the little details and not that we want to bore people with too much of a science lesson, but can you just give a little bit more insight? Cause I think people are going to really like to hear this about the T-Ryke cells, right? And that sort of self versus, you know, non-self, you know, what are the things in terms of the inflammatory pathways? And again, we don’t have to go so much in depth, but maybe like a cliff notes version of
know, when someone has Hashimoto’s, right, what are the cells that are not properly responding? And, you know, cause I think that’ll help people to understand how then they can use the right tools and protocols and ingredients to help that.
Michael Antonelli (18:21.279)
Yeah, when we think about TH1, TH2 and bringing this balance or regulation to it,
Inna (18:27.894)
And TH1 just for people listening, TH1 is T helper cells one and T helper cells two. Okay.
Michael Antonelli (18:34.712)
Absolutely. And then another area that we’re looking at supporting is the plasma cytoid dendric cells and lactoferrin and some postbiotics and other human milk oleosaccharides have the ability of supporting this. And that’s really that orchestra of the immune response. Right. So we’re dialing in on the T helper cells. We’re looking at B cells. We’re looking at NF kappa B natural killer cells and the natural killer T cells. These are all happening.
And for some people that are developing the autoimmune issues, that their body doesn’t know when to distinguish fight or flight or attack versus stamp put. And we start.
Inna (19:14.252)
their active immune cells are overly active and they’re just always on guard, correct?
Michael Antonelli (19:20.248)
Exactly. Right. And it’s almost like pulling an all nighter studying for a test. You get burned out. You aren’t at your height and you are, I would say, and you’re limiting your output. Right. And now your body’s confused. And so that’s what’s been happening with this domino. And we could talk about the role of, you know, fat soluble vitamins, right. The vitamin D connection to this. We could talk about a lot of different unique botanicals. But what we’re trying to do instead of bringing
foreign input is how do we put our body in a position to self correct and make sure it’s able to do this on its own or eventually get to that point. Right. And I think that’s what we’re looking at. A lot of the learning experiences through breastfeeding and what happens through breast milk and accelerate that into an adult population. Right. And I like to call this immune intelligence. Right. How do we create that system?
or re-inoculate that system for greater regulation in the body.
Inna (20:20.02)
Yeah. And it’s really fascinating because we all know that that regulation doesn’t happen in autoimmunity. And from a more functional perspective, you know, there’s a lot of steps and we always talk about, how do we down regulate inflammation? How do we look at the different triggers, right? If we eradicate the gut bugs and if we look at EBV and if we look at mold and if we look at toxins, right? If we’re able to lower the load, right? And like take some of these things out of the bucket, inflammation is going to drop.
That is going to essentially, right, create more of that immune tolerance, alleviate the immune confusion and sort of have this teaching moment for the immune system because the immune system isn’t going to be in this fight or flight. And it’s not going to be like pulling an all nighter trying to deal with all those things. And at the same time, as we do all that and that does work, it takes a long time and we have a lot of triggers, some people more than others, and it’s a process. So it’s so fascinating to hear that.
this specific lactoferrin can actually help to what you’re saying really expedite the process. I mean, we still have to obviously look at our triggers and if we have underlying infections and toxins and viruses, we’re not just going to ignore them. But as we work on that, which takes time, if we can accelerate the process at the same time, I mean, that’s what’s really, really exciting.
Michael Antonelli (21:34.032)
Yes.
Michael Antonelli (21:40.495)
Agreed, right? And I think it’s how do we accelerate the most efficiently way possible? And it’s so easy to start spiraling, spending a lot of money in a variety of diagnostics or getting the house tested for mold and then treated for mold. And it’s just how do we set our domain that we have control over to be as most resilient as possible? And there’s a lot of different paths forward. And we’re trying to identify which bioactives could be most meaningful.
at all these stages of life, but especially through this topic today where we’re trying to empower our immune system to think more strategic and quiet that noise and actually no one to rest. that’s where we’re seeing lactoferrin continue to come up. And it’s going to be one I think that you’re going to hear a lot more over the next couple of years is more and more data clinically, right? There’s a few ongoing studies that are pending public publication that
I think will also give us some more answers about potentially what this may be doing in this area.
Inna (22:45.922)
Yeah. Well, what’s interesting too, I lactoferrin has been around, but it’s just bovine lactoferrin. I, until speaking with you and you and I talk periodically because I’m always picking your brain on what’s the latest, because I know that you’re involved in the coolest research and you would just have connections with people that are doing really amazing things. And so I was not aware of this sort of human mimicking lactoferrin, which obviously could do so much more than the bovine derived because there’s a lot of supplements and
You know, they’re not cheap, the supplements out there that use the bovine. And, you know, it sounds like from what you’re explaining, they’re not able to do probably even half of what the human mimicking one can. Now, Michael, with lactoferrin, is colostrum something that contains lactoferrin? Cause colostrum is very, very popular. And, and I think if I had a penny for every time someone asked me, Hey, you know, what do you think of the Armour colostrum? Because.
You know, they’re everywhere and it’s a good product and people do see results with it, but it’s, know, they have lots of marketing dollars and so they’re everywhere. So is there electropharyn in that? or what’s the connection there?
Michael Antonelli (23:55.632)
Great point. Yeah, colostrum is like one of the biggest crazes right now. I don’t want to call it a trend because I do think it’s here to stay. But colostrum is incredible. And yes, lactoferrin is occurring naturally in colostrum and at lower levels. what you want to do, the heavy lifting that we’re talking about today, is isolated, measurable lactoferrin, not one that might be in a proprietary blend, not one that might be
I want to know exactly what I’m putting in my body. I want to the milligram or gram amount. I don’t like proprietary blends. like truth in labeling. don’t want to say this might be in it. know, colostrum has a lot of really unique activity happening in it. And lactoferrin is part of that story. But in terms of making major significant modulation to iron, you want a standalone heavy hitter.
Inna (24:37.166)
You
Michael Antonelli (24:53.891)
Lactoferrin or human equivalent lactoferrin.
Inna (24:57.336)
Yeah, yeah. you know, colostrum, like you said, it gives you other benefits, but the lactoferrin in it is a small amount. And, you know, even though colostrum is helpful, it sounds like the lactoferrin is probably one of the big drivers that’s doing it. So you could get more of it, then you’re doubling, tripling, quadrupling, perhaps that immune modulating and calming activity.
Michael Antonelli (25:18.053)
I think in a perfect world, all play a role, but at different points of your healing journey. So I do think if you were telling me to invest funds into solutions, potentially starting with Lactoferrin, having that do what it needs to do, and then maintaining with something like a colostrum or something like a colostrum as more of a maintenance where you’re getting a lot of unique benefits at more supportive levels, which
Inna (25:35.958)
Hmm.
Michael Antonelli (25:45.135)
their people and their healing journey, that’s where they’re at, right? And that’s what they need is to maintain where they are. And so I think both of these options are very meaningful for different people.
Inna (25:55.768)
Yeah. Now, colostrum, from everything you’re explaining, sounds like it works really well on its own, but I know that there’s, excuse me, I meant to say lactoferrin is something that works really well on its own, this human mimicking one. But there’s other things that can work together with it that can make it even better, right? Especially for that immune modulation. What are some of the other things that you use and why?
Michael Antonelli (26:20.857)
Yeah, so I think what’s really unique about colostrum and we’ve been looking at around this whole breast milk mimetic and all these emerging ingredients that we outlined earlier. And there are some groups researching ways of mimicking colostrum, also how it appears in our body. They’re utilizing that through things like proteomics and mapping protein. And then they’re able to see, well, which fragments occurring in colostrum are doing the heavy lifting in the body. And I think
You know, not to, we’re not going to call it, I’m not going call it any brands, but some of the brands you mentioned already, you know, I think why there’s some appeal there is this beauty from within. And that’s, think a lot of appeal with colostrum. And again, it ties into, well, your skin’s a mirror of what’s happening inside you, especially in your gut. And colostrum’s there with things like the immunoglobulins and glycoproteins and even low level lactoferrin. There’s so many occurring bioactives in it that yes, yeah, it is part of the orchestra.
in helping maintain integrity. if we had a crystal ball and we can identify certain fragments and piece those together, right? Like there are research groups that have identified certain fragments and have clinical studies done with large human groups that have identified fragments for gut repair, fragments for muscle repair, and being able to really personalize the type of colostrum.
based on your particular health goal. That’s not only the, some may say the future if you’re just hearing about this for the first time, but this is innovation and technology that’s available today as we’re listening and doing this.
Inna (28:00.556)
Yeah, no, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. And you know, with the human equivalent lactoferrin, is there anything that helps it work better? I know in the product that you have, which we’ll talk about in a second, there’s two other things that it’s paired with. And I’m assuming, you know, you don’t do anything just because there’s always a reason. There’s always research and nobody’s science behind that. So how is, how are you pairing it and why?
Michael Antonelli (28:27.855)
Yeah, so with the lactoferrin, the human equivalent lactoferrin, the most abundant human milk oleosaccharides, 2-FL. And that’s what you’re going to see. This was actually the first HMO I helped bring to market over a decade ago. There’s just some really, really unique data on there, not only as a prebiotic, right, to help re-soil the foundation, but we wanted that to be the carrier that the human equivalent lactoferrin was contained in.
to help the body even more efficiently recognize and utilize the synergy. And there’s a lot happening with heat-treated postbiotics, right? These are killed-off strains that still have a lot of activity in the gut. And in this case, patching together that leaky roof we talked about earlier. So we have a very unique postbiotic that, you know, there’s so many out there. So we’re looking at the ones that have the highest degree of human data published.
ones that are ID verified strains for replication. And we created this triple ingredient synergy within a capsule, again, to give it the opportunity to maximize its bioavailability when taken orally in the body.
Inna (29:44.174)
And with the postbiotic, so a lot of people talk about butyrates and compounds like that as postbiotic. So this is a little bit different because it’s a deactivated probiotic, correct?
Michael Antonelli (29:57.497)
That’s right. Yeah. So if you’re listening and you have a long history of probiotics, you’ll know that some probiotics come to you with ice packs. You have put them in the fridge. They’re live organisms. They’re tricky. You want to make sure that when you actually take your probiotic that there’s activity in that capsule. Post-biotics are starting to gain a lot of traction. So are sporobiotics. These are options that are heat stable. They don’t need to be refrigerated. They don’t die off. And you want ones that have human data, right? So the
I think post-biotics are an area that is worth exploring, especially the right one. And this one, we found one that has over 15 human studies on helping orchestrate that immune response. That’s where a lot of people were coming short.
Inna (30:39.662)
But if it’s not a live strain, tell us a little bit more about how that works. How does it affect immune system if it’s dead essentially? Or is it not really dead, but just not active?
Michael Antonelli (30:53.26)
It’s just, yeah, that there’s just not measurable activity. There’s still meaningful activity, one taken orally and, you know, prebiotic, it could also be falling into this category, right? But post-biotics, heat treated, they have this kind of die off, but there’s still activity within the ingredient itself for a certain area that you want to execute. And in this case, it was helping patch some of the tight junctions.
to fix some of the shortcomings of why some people are immune resilience, or are having issues with immune resilience.
Inna (31:31.134)
Right, right. Yeah. And then with prebiotics, because those, there’s so many, and you know, I think so many companies, especially probiotic formulas are going to use prebiotics, say, hey, you know, if you take the prebiotic, it’s going to help defeat the probiotic, it’ll help with colonization. But there’s also a lot of talk about certain prebiotics that can create a lot of extra gas and bloating. Or if someone already has a dysbiotic gut, that the prebiotic
can actually feed not just the good guys, but also the bad guys, because if you throw fertilizer onto grounds and there’s a bunch of weeds, you’re just gonna grow those weeds. talk to us a little bit about how different prebiotics work and what do we do to make sure that we’re not feeding the bad guys, or is it important to eradicate as much as you can of the bad guys before doing a prebiotic? Sorry, that’s a loaded question with lots of questions in it.
Michael Antonelli (32:27.36)
Yeah, I think it’s again, doing your homework and researching everything that potential formula has on the fact panel. Now, what you were talking about on prebiotics potential issues, FOS, inulin, these can cause bloating. They can feed some things you don’t want to intend to feed. And we’ve avoided some of these prebiotics because we see that you need a large amount for it to be relevant.
And a lot of, I would say people that turn to health jeopardy, they’re not always, I guess, fortunate enough to be able to just seed everything. And so we need to make sure we’re more streamlined with our ingredient selection. So I think it’s just identifying the research behind the prebiotics that potentially could be in the formula you’re thinking about taking. What did that research show? And do you think it’s going to agree with where your body is today? Again, because you may just be starting your healing journey today.
You don’t even know any of the stuff we’ve been talking about. You don’t know, like, you know, is your gut in a good place? Have you gotten testing? Have you seen the right provider? Or you may already be further ahead. And so I think a lot of these pre pro and even some cases, some post biotics, maybe a second phase or even a third phase of a healing journey, because there’s other things that may come before that unless you’re doing with the right synergies. Right. So
What we wanted to do, getting back to the other question, is create this synergy of ingredients that are aligned with common goals and mechanisms when taken in the body.
Inna (34:07.374)
And so the prebiotic that you use is not related to FOS or inulin. So it would not have those negative impacts. And it sounds like wherever someone is on their journey, whether they’re just beginning or more in the middle or maybe towards the end and you know, their gut could be a mess or their gut could be a little better, but you know, whose gut can’t use more support, right? It sounds like you formulated it specifically for that so that people…
you know, aren’t having to guess and it shouldn’t affect things negatively, correct?
Michael Antonelli (34:38.294)
Absolutely. Yeah. And again, all purposeful. We knew that the average person turning to these formulas would be someone that is having some complications with keeping their immune system strong. And so we were very mindful in ingredient selection and making sure the ingredients that were being combined were at significant doses to make a difference.
Inna (34:59.468)
Yeah. Now with this product and we’ll put the links and all the information about this immune balancing product in the show notes for everyone listening. But with it, so it’s got the humicoid and electropharyn, it’s got the postbiotic and it’s got the prebiotic that’s not FOS or inulin. Is there any dairy in it or any like parts of dairy? I can’t speak today.
Any remnants of dairy, I think is what I’m trying to say.
Michael Antonelli (35:32.024)
Great question. This particular formula that we’ve been talking about is free of dairy. And again, that was purposeful because of some of the sensitivities and even allergies that some people listening might have with dairy.
Inna (35:46.542)
That’s great because there’s a lot of people who do colostrum and you know, they get some benefit. Obviously it’s not going to be as direct and specific as the product you’re talking about, but they’re still getting some benefit. But if they’re very dairy sensitive, colostrum is always going to be bovine derived. so like for me, for example, because there’s so much hype about ArmRyne and literally everyone was listening, I was like, I’m going to try it because I have to, you know, yes, I can look at the ingredients in the research, but I also
never liked to say yes or no to someone without having personal experience. And so I did try it and yes, like I’ve seen some changes, but I react to dairy. I actually, it’s very interesting. Like I’m 46, but I still get pimples with certain things. Dairy specifically. I eat a little cheese. I get a pimple. I’m like, okay, I am in my forties. I should not be getting pimples. And I did have a breakout with the colostrum. It wasn’t huge, but it was there. And to me that’s an indication, right? I mean, listen, I can cover up the pimple. It’s not the issue, but
It’s more that if my body’s having a reaction on the outside, there’s probably something way bigger happening on the inside that I can’t see. And I certainly don’t want to take that chance. So I love, love hearing that it is really truly dairy free because it’s really until what you have until this product, there really isn’t anything dairy free or strong.
Michael Antonelli (37:04.356)
Agreed. And bovine free, right? And that may not be as big of a deal, but these were two areas, when we talk about allergy free areas that we wanted to avoid with the solution that was front of mind in the formulation journey. And as soon as we heard about what a lot of these researchers were doing, we knew there was a major need in our healthcare community to get this out there and into the hands that need it.
Inna (37:28.674)
Yeah. Now what are some of the applications of this? So obviously that immune tolerance, immune balance, so anyone with autoimmunity. But what about people who just have, you know, maybe autoimmune, but also like other inflammatory conditions, like neuroinflammation, you know, a lot of children on the spectrum, with PANS-PANDAS, I think children with ADHD, which is like every third person these days.
You know, is it something that could be helpful there? Or whether applications are there for this human equivalent electropharynx?
Michael Antonelli (38:02.83)
Yeah, I think all of those areas is going to be meaningful. We’re learning more and more about this gut brain access that can in turn talk about the neuroinflammation. And we hit on earlier the role of maintaining healthy iron levels and what that means for healthy immunity and energy levels. And then even someone who’s active. So we think about big buckets here, healthy aging, women’s health, and your everyday athlete.
I think those are big areas. Now, these immune iron connection, I think is another relevant conversation for many people.
Inna (38:43.49)
Yeah, I it sounds like really, I mean, of course for auto-immunity, but it’s almost in every case people can use that. And if someone has done a comprehensive gut protocol, you know, maybe they’ve done stool testing and they’ve identified certain types of microbes or yeasts or parasites and they’ve eradicated them and they’ve worked on leaky gut and maybe they’ve tested zonulin and they’ve done the glutamine and the things to heal their gut and they’ve done probiotics for a really long time. Do you think that they’re good?
Or is it something that’s kind of like an ever-changing landscape where it always needs support?
Michael Antonelli (39:19.139)
I think there’s no shortage of people that can benefit even short term, you know, to layer this into your protocol, even for a month, couple months. Our bodies are under attack every day. So just when you think you’re good, may not be, right? This is what’s so important about staying on this journey, staying strong, staying disciplined, but also looking at introducing like nothing we have is going to be a new multivitamin for life. These are there to do heavy lifting and pulse in and out.
Inna (39:32.194)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Michael Antonelli (39:48.471)
month to month as your protocol evolves.
Inna (39:51.33)
Yeah. And you know, that’s a good point. I mean, I have a lot of people that tell me like, I’ve done that already. I’ve done that. And I’m like, well, hold on a second. You know, what exactly did you do and when did you do that? Because I think as we go through different stages of life too, right? We could have done a gut protocol when we were 40 and then we start perimenopause at 44, our hormones start to shift, which creates a whole lot of inflammation declining. Estrogen is going to lead to
less immune tolerance, which is going to lead to more inflammation. And yes, of course, if someone is going to do hormones and supplement estrogen, that will help. But in that process of estrogen decline, we can invite, not on purpose, but inadvertently invite unfriendly bugs and organisms. And I think that’s really kind of the key thing that, and I do a lot of stool testing and
you know, of course it’s very helpful and we see what’s going on, but it’s remembering that the gut is such an ever-changing environment, right? And I also tell people, you can’t eradicate every single bad bacteria. Plus also what we see on a stool test is only a very, very, very small part of a whole of the other bacteria. We just know some of these big bacteria that we know are more pathogenic, you know, or opportunistic, but there’s so many other things. And so I think it’s just really important for people to know, no matter where you’re on your journey,
the gut’s always changing. So anything that we could do to support that in a healthy way, right? Not in an overstimulating way, not in a way that’s going to over cleanse either, because that’s the other thing. And I think when I was first practicing, we’re going back 20 years, 15 years ago, I did a lot of cleansing. And not to say that I don’t anymore, but I think I probably went through a period in my practice and myself personally where…
I did a little bit of over-cleansing both with myself and the people that I work with. like, oh, there’s this guy, let’s kill this off and let’s kill this off. And I actually even had this with my own son when Jake was little. He started having this weird like diarrhea almost out of nowhere and he was nine months old. And I remember doing a stool test and I found some stuff. And so I gave him herbs, of course, you know, for his age. You know, it was just little drops of things. And then I retested the stool in two months and that bacteria was gone, but there was another one and then another one. So I did some more cleansing and then.
Inna (42:02.926)
I did a stool test three months later and then we saw a parasite and I was just like, oh my goodness, what’s going on? And I remember speaking to the head of the lab, you know, at that point, the one of the labs that I used was we’re going back 10 years, you they were just starting out and so they weren’t as busy as they are now. And so we would literally have conversations on daily basis about what’s going on. And, know, and I think it’s that realization, meaning kids more so, but even adults, right? There’s always things changing and it’s, you know, you’re just, you can’t play whack-a-mole all the time. Like, yes, if there’s a par, like, yes, we want to kill stuff off, but then…
It’s exactly what you’re saying. It’s how do we maintain, right? Or otherwise we’re literally just playing whack-a-mole for the rest of our life, which is just not that fun.
Michael Antonelli (42:42.019)
Agreed. that’s why I think this conversation is really timed well, because a lot of people are trying different things. Some things are helping, some things aren’t. And it’s just like, how do we create a simple, systematic approach? And this is getting back into that biology, that 101, the building blocks, which is breast milk, and how much we’re learning about that and restoring the signal in an adult microbiome and
all the benefits that could be associated with that. I think if somebody has tried a lot or if they’re just starting out, definitely check out the role of human equivalent lactoferrin and if it’s right for where you are today.
Inna (43:23.352)
Yeah, I mean, it just seems like such an integral product for so many different areas. And I’m really excited about this research. So for everyone listening, I’m going to put the link below. Michael was actually gracious enough to give us a discount code. So we will put that down as well. And you can check it out there. Well, Michael, thank you so much for being here and just for always being on the forefront of things and really hoping to bring innovation.
It’s, you know, I think there’s so many companies out there who just go along with, you know, on the bandwagon, right, with what’s hot and, you know, what’s kind of selling right now, but you’re always really looking, okay, well, what is the research showing and, know, where, like, what do we really need? Right. And especially for us as an autoimmune community and autoimmune population, you know, that immune modulation is what we need. And it’s, it’s, you know, it’s not as hypey, right? It’s not as.
hip and fun as some of the other things, but that’s really what we need. That’s at the core of Hashimoto. So thank you for doing the work that you do and the research that you do. And I’m excited to see results with this.
Michael Antonelli (44:32.867)
Thank you. It’s my honor. You know why we’re here doing what we do day in and day out, collaborating with practitioners all over the world to make sure that we have our pulse on not only emerging research, but what you on the front line and your community are needing to live your best life. So I really appreciate the time and opportunity to come back another time here.
Inna (44:52.524)
Yes. And I know there’s so many more peptides and just ingredients that you’re in the process of researching and coming out with. So I’m excited to have you back to talk about that soon as well.
Michael Antonelli (45:06.795)
I would love that. A lot happening over the next couple months here. So I look forward to picking up where we’re leaving off today.
Inna (45:09.826)
Yeah.
Inna (45:13.516)
Yes. Me too. Thank you so much, Michael.
Michael Antonelli (45:16.312)
Thank you.
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