The Missing Piece to Getting Your Hashimoto’s Into Remission That No Doctor Is Talking About, with Anat Peri

Inna Topiler MS CNS (00:01.273)

Anat Perry, I am so excited to have you back on Thyroid Mystery Solved, Hashimoto’s and Hypothyroidism Revealed. Welcome.

Anat Peri (00:10.296)

Thanks, Ina. Good to be back. I think it was about a year ago, right? ‘Cause I was visiting you and we did it we did a show in person. So it’s like last July.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (00:20.065)

It was and it was a really powerful one. And I love everything that you have to share because your perspective is a little different than what most people, especially with Hashimoto’s, hear from their traditional doctor, but even from their functional doctor, because we’re going so much deeper and we’re really getting into the thick of it. And when it comes to Hashimoto’s or any autoimmune disease, I think it’s really important to get to the thick of it. I almost think about it as, you know how they say entrepreneurship is the fastest way to self-discovery, or there’s something like that.

And I think about autoimmunity the same way that when we really get to the bottom of our autoimmunity, it’s really a way to discover ourselves and all the parts of ourselves and all of the things. And I’m excited to get into our conversation today because so often people are told if they have a health condition that they need to be positive, which of course is very important. And even with the show, my big slogan is the answers are out there.

Because they are right. And there’s hope. And we talk about all of the positive and affirmations and things like that. And they’re all very important. I’m not going back on that. But one of the things that you talk about that I think is really interesting is that it’s really important to feel what’s going on, the good and the bad. And if we don’t, then it’s actually going to make it much harder for us to heal. So why don’t we start with that?

When you talk about feeling the feelings, even the ones that are more difficult, even the ones that may mean that something may not happen that you want, why is that important and how can that benefit us?

Anat Peri (02:02.882)

Yeah. Well, your feelings are your emotions. Your emotions are energy in motion. And when they’re not in motion, it doesn’t mean the energy isn’t there. And I I I agree with you thinking positive is important, but not in replacement of feeling what is there. And as someone who grew up with that motto.

That was literally my mother’s motto. Like, just think positive. You’re fine. it trained me to be in my head, to

Inna Topiler MS CNS (02:40.356)

We’ll edit this part out. One second.

Anat Peri (02:47.436)

We turned everything off except for the real phone.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (02:47.77)

This phone this is Meanwhile, this is like no one ever uses this phone.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (03:02.394)

And actually, while maybe this interruption was good, because I was just thinking, I want to reframe that question, if you wouldn’t mind, because I I yeah, okay, just to like break it up a little bit. So Tim, we can take it from let’s see.

Anat Peri (03:07.99)

Okay. Yeah. Go for it.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (03:20.41)

What was I saying? One of the things that you talk about is really feeling what’s going on and being mindful of feeling through things that may or may not happen. And when we think about it from a health perspective, we’re always told what we want to imagine the best, right? So you see yourself healthy and you see yourself vibrant and you see yourself in the right clothes that you want to have at your ideal weight and.

How you’re so rested and happy and all the things, right? And doing affirmations, which could be helpful. But one of the things that you mentioned is that it’s also important to feel what it would be like if things don’t happen that way. And if you actually don’t feel better. And you and I had this conversation. We’ll talk in a minute about what sparked this conversation. But to me at first, that was very surprising.

Because I thought, well, wait a minute, why would you even try to put out in the universe that something may not happen that you want, right? Or that a potential negative. And you had a really interesting explanation that I think everyone needs to hear. So tell us more.

Anat Peri (04:28.716)

Yeah, the truth is that it’s important to tune in with ourselves and we can acknowledge the part of us that is optimistic, that could see that vision, that possibility. And we also get to explore and ask ourselves, is there a part of me that feels different? That doubts? Is there a part of me that’s afraid?

That this won’t change or that I will fail or that this won’t happen for me. Because that part needs to be acknowledged. Cause if you’re thinking it and it’s coming up for you when you ask yourself that question, then a part of you is there. And if you don’t acknowledge it, you are rejecting it. And if you’re rejecting it, it means you’re indicating to your nervous system that this part is

A threat. It doesn’t belong here. And then your nervous system has to get busy to protect you from it. It has to create some kind of survival mechanism, whether it’s running from it or controlling everything. I know for me this was definitely a pattern of being super rigid.

And meticulous because I can’t have this not work out. So I’m gonna do everything by the book perfectly, all these things. But it was all from a place of fear. So to really check in that even though we may have this positive outlook for the most part, and desire and vision, which is great, is there part of us that we’re denying that is actually running the show and hijacking.

our experience.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (06:19.992)

Hmm. That’s really interesting because I wouldn’t necessarily see that way at first, but I completely understand what you’re saying. In my mind, the thinking is, and I think for so many people listening, I bet that’s the case too. Why would we acknowledge a part that feels scared that maybe we’ll never lose the weight with Hashimoto’s, or maybe we’ll never feel energized, or maybe our body will never be the same? Because by acknowledging, you’re almost like saying that it’s not possible. And why would we say something is not possible when

It can be possible. Anything can be possible, right? And so I’d always thought that like, let’s keep that part over there, right? Because it’s that part that is maybe distrusting or the part that is nervous or anxious. And it’s like, hey, you know, and even I remember in certain therapy sessions, like we talk do parts work and talk about, hey, can you ask that part of your brain or that part of you to just take a seat? Right. I mean, I think that’s not uncommon.

To say, like, okay, I hear you and go sit down over there because I don’t want to focus on you. You’re not helping me. I’m gonna focus on this, right? Because it’s helping me. But what I really got from what you were saying is that it’s if you tell it to sit down and don’t pay attention to it, it doesn’t just go away. It actually perhaps maybe even becomes louder, but louder in ways that you may not

Anat Peri (07:23.438)

Mm-hmm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (07:40.243)

Realize consciously, but it’s always kind of there. Like a program, like when you have too many windows open on your computer, like you don’t always see them, but they’re taking up memory.

Anat Peri (07:49.773)

Very good metaphor there. Yes, a couple things. One is understanding, and I think I shared this in in our last episode together, that the nervous system responds ten times faster than the mind does. So you could have all the best intentions in your mind, in your visions, but what is your nervous system giving its energy to? And if we’re

Saying that a part of us needs to go sit over there, part of us does not belong, then again, our nervous system has to constantly be in protection of that. And that is taking energy away from rest, from digest, from repair, from all the things that we need our nervous system to be on board with is that sympathetic that that that

sympathetic state, that relaxed state for us. And so and and and also from the perspective of understanding that a lot of those beliefs, yeah, they may not be our truth, but they’re inherited truths. How many of these things it’s it’s it’s like something that we heard growing up. And so it’s there, it’s taking energy.

And by not acknowledging it, we’re continuing to let it take energy. And by acknowledging it, we get to actually complete an open loop.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (09:28.292)

What does it mean to acknowledge it?

Anat Peri (09:31.497)

So let me give you an example here of a recent session that I had with a client of mine. He’s he’s young. He’s 31 years old. he’s been a one of the top snowboard instructors on the West Coast and Lake Tahoe for the past six years. And he’s venturing out now and looking to start his own business. And, you know, he he

He’s like, and not, I’m I’m doing we started working together and the first session, he’s like, and not, I do affirmations in the mirror. I I tell myself like I I am a millionaire, I can succeed. Like he has good foundation of a mindset, you can say, and all these great affirmations. And I said to him, Awesome, let’s let’s put those aside. Now tell me, is there a part of you that

Feels differently. Can we let those parts speak right now? And he listed a bunch. Like, more I remember one, more money, more problems. That’s an inherited one. Or you should be happy with what you have, or feel guilty that you want more. All of which he remembers at some point experiencing as a learning in childhood. And

So I said, we’re gonna, we’re gonna observe these. And as I read them off to him, right, I I helped him regulate and really connect to his body first. And I said, as I repeat these to you, I want you to notice what shows up in your body. And what showed up was this tight ball, and he said almost like a rope that is wound up into a ball in his belly. And the more he observed it and validated it.

Anat Peri (11:28.758)

And just observed and named the sensations of it, I kid you not, he started burping. Which is one of the ways that the nervous system discharges energy. And he kept burping for the next 30 minutes. And at one point he grabbed the he grabbed his trash can because he thought he might purge, he might throw up. And his and and what this uncovered.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (11:36.546)

Mm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (11:52.322)

Well.

Anat Peri (11:57.833)

i and that I pointed out to him is that his tendency of protection, his bodyguard when he doesn’t want to deal with something, is to stuff it down, is to endure. And so he you could imagine he’s been stuffing a lot down. And so of course you take that bottle and you shake it suddenly and all the air comes up.

And so it’s a common discharge way of burping and releasing, releasing, and releasing, releasing. And 30 minutes into it, he just like, wow, he’s like, I can’t believe how how lighter I feel and how much of my energy this was taking. And at the same time, he said to me, I’m exhausted. I was like, You’re exhausted, A, because you’re moving a lot of energy, B, because your nervous system has been running from this for so long.

And now we could stop running. And when you finally stop running, you know, when we’re in survival, we don’t realize how much our nervous system is working for us. That a lot of times when we actually start to heal from things, we go through a period of needing deep rest, of of being exhausted because we can finally be exhausted.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (13:18.958)

Yeah, yeah, that’s such a good point.

Anat Peri (13:23.552)

And so the way to to answer your question now to to summarize it for the listeners, the way to validate it is to acknowledge it. Like you could say it to yourself, admit those statements. You know, I will fail. Money isn’t for me. Or health, you know, I’m I’m gonna, I’m always gonna struggle with Hashimoto’s. I’m never gonna lose this weight or whatever those statements are. Say them to yourself.

and notice what comes up.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (13:55.247)

And yeah, so just a quick question about that, because I understand everything you’re saying. And yet, just the words that you just said, like, I’ll always struggle with Hashimoto’s. Like I literally, and again, like I have mine in remission. I help people get it in remission. And it’s I’m so encouraging because I’ve seen it with myself and thousands of people. And I understand what you’re saying about admitting and feeling the potential of it not. But even just hearing you say that.

Like you’ll never get over your Hashimoto symptoms. Like I I don’t know. Like there’s just this, like, like just hearing you say it. And I think of my listener, I think of the thousands of clients and and people in my programs. And like I I almost cringe to as I think of them like hearing that.

Anat Peri (14:42.018)

Mm-hmm.

Anat Peri (14:48.672)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Where do you where do you where do you feel that cringe, Ina?

Inna Topiler MS CNS (14:49.508)

Be c

like probably belly or chest, but it’s like and it’s not I don’t think I don’t think I feel it for me. Well maybe I do, I don’t know. I mean, obviously I’m at such a different place where than I was 25 years ago with where I am, but it’s almost like I’m feeling it for the collective kind of that like well, I I I think I I’m trying to clarify the feeling. It’s more that I I hear you say it and I’m like, ooh. And then it’s almost like I don’t want people to start to think that they can’t get over their stuff. Like

Anat Peri (15:21.358)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (15:21.804)

And that they’re gonna be like this forever because I know that they don’t have to be, you know, and they can get better. And so I think that’s like the cringe piece that comes in.

Anat Peri (15:30.957)

Yeah, but here’s the thing for a lot of people, a part of them does feel that way. And have you ever had a client that self-sabotaged? And that is why. The part of them that’s having them self-sabotage is the part that doesn’t believe that this could work for them. And so they’re not acknowledging that part. So that part says, fine, I’ll just wreak wreck havoc. Like I’ll show you.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (15:40.537)

All the time.

Anat Peri (15:59.839)

And so they end up sabotaging because they’re never acknowledging that a part of them doesn’t believe. Instead of acknowledging it, and now what happens when you acknowledge it? A lot of times you get to what’s underneath it, which is something that you learned. Most of the time these are learned beliefs that aren’t even yours. You and I were talking about this the other day when we were planning for this.

of just how much generational learning there is that maybe made sense for our ancestors to believe. Do you remember the one that you shared? Too much.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (16:41.642)

Yeah. So, you know, I think for me there’s so many different things, but I always remember like my parents and in my family, it was very much like, make sure you think of everything. Like be on top of everything. Don’t forget anything. And did you think of this? And is it possibly are you gonna miss this? Like be on top of it. Think, think, think. Use your head. Like, don’t forget to think. And when you go there, don’t forget to use your head, right? And it was just like be be like diligent and like don’t

Allow anything to slip through. And God forbid, like, don’t think about your feelings because like your head’s gonna like get you know your head is where it is, your head’s gonna take you places in life, essentially. I mean, they didn’t say it in those words, but as a little girl, that is how I understood it, which is not surprising that for a very long time I literally didn’t even know how to access feelings. This was a long time ago and I’ve done tons of work over time, but it was a lot of that. And

What’s interesting too, looking at my upbringing, you know, even just my parents, forget even like down the lineage, but even just my parents, well, and my grandparents too, right? They grew up in the former Soviet Union. It’s very different there, but they immigrated here when I was 10, but they lived their lives there. And so obviously, like the government controlled a lot of stuff. My dad actually told me that he never left the country until I think he was like

30 and he went to a concert in Germany and he’s never been to a concert. And I remember thinking, like, you’ve never been to a concert until you were 30. I mean, my kids went to see Kids Bop at five years old and it was this big thing, you know, it was their first concert. You know, and he was explaining to me that in the former Soviet Union, like, you weren’t allowed to gather in large groups because, you know, I guess in a way that was a threat to the government. And there’s all of these things that we just don’t really think about. And so I think that from that.

That generational learning is that like you gotta be like very careful with things and don’t tell people too many things because someone can find out and then you could get in trouble. And make sure you always use your head, like never let go of your head and ever follow your heart, right? And I never realized until more recently that even though I don’t consider myself an anxious person, there was this underlying level, and I don’t wanna say it’s anxiety because anxiety is not the right word, but it’s an underlying level of.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (19:01.194)

Mmm, almost like diligence, if you will. Like this level of feeling like you just not only have to be on top of everything, but you have to be like extra, like, well, diligent, I guess. That’s really probably the best word. And whenever something happens, even if it’s something small, there is this almost innate and immediate nervous system.

Upregul. And I know I’ve sharing with you, and I think a lot of people have this. You know, you get a letter from the IRS, and like you’re like, my God, it’s the IRS, right? Meanwhile, it’s like them emailing you that they changed your address, right? Which you get like every six months. But I think it’s this thing like, IRS. And I was always raised to be a good girl and do the right thing. And I pay my bills on time and I do all my things. So when you see something that could mean potentially, my God, I’m in trouble, right? Which I know I didn’t do anything to get in trouble, right? But then there’s this like,

my gosh. And I think this sort of like, my gosh, feeling it’s it’s almost like a startle reflex, if you will, that happens even with little things because you’re just on high alert from a lot of the generational learning of like, be on top of everything, watch out because someone may try to do something, you know, and it doesn’t serve us now, but it served our other generations in the past.

Anat Peri (20:04.088)

Mm-hmm.

Anat Peri (20:22.176)

Exactly, exactly. And so w when we are willing to acknowledge those parts that aren’t so positive, so to speak, we start to see how much of it is learned. And that even just sometimes by acknowledging it and w and and and feeling the sensations that are there. Like this one client, that’s all he needed. He just needed to just

observe it and feel it and acknowledge it was there and it was starting to discharge. We didn’t even which in my body of work is stage two, acceptance. We didn’t even get to stage three, which is the root of like who modeled this to you? Whose energy is this? Is this something you heard from mom or from dad? Is it what you saw, what you heard, what you felt from them? And sometimes with a client, that’s the more powerful part. It’s not the

acceptance the the somatic release. It’s the my God. Yeah, this was my mom. And is it how, you know, she made you feel or how she felt about herself? It’s how she felt about herself. She never talked to me this way. She never made me feel this way. so this isn’t even yours. Like you’ve literally been carrying this. I think about my mom and my mom had

Inna Topiler MS CNS (21:39.962)

Mm. Yeah.

Anat Peri (21:49.695)

asthma since she was a little girl and when I was young, like s five, six years old, we were living in Israel, she was in and out of the hospital a lot for it. And my experience growing up of observing my mom when it came to her health and vitality was like it’s not, you know, like like the body is weak.

was the statement. And I wasn’t aware of this until I think it was COVID, around COVID, something happened. I was at home with my husband, something happened and like my body had this whole like flare up reaction. And I went into panic mode. And he was and and he was like, You’re fine, you’re fine. He’s like, just breathe, just relax. And I sat there reflecting on like, where did this

Inna Topiler MS CNS (22:19.21)

Mm.

Anat Peri (22:48.448)

come from like like why do I react that way? Or I think about how I used to approach physical fitness and and always kind of like, I don’t I’m not strong. Like starting to see like I have this belief that I’m not strong, that I’m not capable, that my body is weak. I started to hear those parts and then be like, where did I learn this? And then I tied it to

Inna Topiler MS CNS (23:01.082)

Mm.

Anat Peri (23:18.274)

This is what it’s not even something my mom said. It’s just what I witnessed a lot of her going through and being in. And I took it on as this is the only thing that’s possible for me until that moment. And then from that moment, that day, that realization, I was I started writing down all the possible affirmations. There’s a place for affirmations. Just like there’s a place to plant new seeds in a garden.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (23:23.61)

Mm-hmm.

Anat Peri (23:47.865)

But you gotta clear out the weeds first and you gotta clear them out by the root. And it was at that point that like re like just a few weeks later, I I met my my naturopath. I was led to her and did deep healing work with her to then how I started to approach exercise and working out was all from like my body’s strong, capable, I could do whatever I want.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (23:52.494)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (24:16.29)

And so I don’t think we realize how much of our behavior and our beliefs isn’t ours, is inherited and has led to even having these autoimmunes.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (24:31.45)

Right, right. Well, that’s the big thing, right? Is like where did the autoimmune come from? Because we know the nervous system is going to govern the immune system. It all starts with the nervous system. So that is what then triggers whether we have genetic predisposition or environmental triggers, but then all the nervous system stuff is just this extra stuff that’s in our bucket for sure. Now, in terms of feeling the potential of what can happen if we don’t get better, right? So let’s say someone

Anat Peri (24:51.126)

Exactly.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (25:00.332)

Is really trying to lose weight and you know, they’re they’re doing it, but yet they’re still not at their goal. Weight, right? And obviously they’re thinking I’m getting there, I’m doing all the things, right? Or someone’s really fatigued. And I I bring up weight loss and fatigue just because those are probably some of the biggest symptoms. There’s so many when it comes to thyroid issues, but those are the two biggies that I think almost I don’t want to say everyone, but almost everyone, so many people struggle with. So when or how should someone go about feeling the feeling?

And the sensation of okay, what if I never get to the goal weight? Or what if I never fit back into this bathing suit? Or what if I am never going to be able to have the same energy so that I can do all the things that I want with my children or do the things that I want for my business or my job or whatever it may be. How would someone start there? Because I I think it’s scary.

Anat Peri (25:54.447)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well first off, I mean, is that are those the common statements underlying that people don’t want to admit that you do hear? Would you say it’s around that? What do you think is the thing that has them sabotage or or doubt or not even want to invest in your program?

Inna Topiler MS CNS (26:19.396)

To be honest. I mean, I don’t know if I specifically hear that because we’re always encouraging people that there’s oldest help and they all get better. but deep down, right, what they fear, I am sure almost everyone fears that, you know, and people do say to me, you know, and again, I hear it on the other side, right? So I hear it with, my gosh, you know, I did the 10 day Hashimoto’s weight loss and I’m down 10 pounds.

I could not lose that weight by anything, you know, in the prior year, right? Or they’ll do our thyroid mystery solved and be like, my gosh, like I never realized it was all these things. And now I’m here. But before that I was there, I didn’t think that anyone can help me yet, you know, and yet they’re better. But I think there’s still these underlying things. So I think people think that, but I hear it on the other side of it, if that makes sense.

Anat Peri (27:16.012)

Yeah, so a couple of things. I totally believe that doing real good programs like yours are gonna produce results. especially when people commit to it for for that period of time. The question I have before I answer yours is is it sustainable for them? Because it could be that it’s not the beliefs around

Hashimoto’s or the rate loss that are actually getting them into this situation. It’s everything else in their life.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (27:50.821)

for sure. So that we address. That’s all in the program, which is why they get through that. We do a ton of that stuff, especially in thyroid mystery stuff. So yeah, that’s why that’s addressed. But I’m curious for everyone else, even the people that are not in my programs, right? Like just for them, even like take my programs outside. We’re not here to talk about them necessarily, right? It’s for people that are maybe just starting out, or maybe they’ve been it at a while, or maybe they’re just, you know, they’re doing much better, but they’re not a hundred percent. I mean, that’s

Anat Peri (28:04.59)

Mm-hmm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (28:18.68)

A lot of people, right? Like there may be 50% there or 60% there. How, you know, and they I and I think we probably all have those thoughts, whether they’re conscious or not, like, no, what if it doesn’t get better? Right. And that could be one symptom at one time of your life and another symptom in another, right? Like maybe someone’s going through perimenopause and they’re having a ton brain fodds. And they’re like, gosh, what if this brain fod doesn’t go away? Like I can’t remember people’s names, right? Or maybe they’re going through a fertility journey and

you know, there’s questions about that, right? I mean, so I think that whatever it is, we all probably have it. So it sounds like the first thing is just asking those parts of you to step up to be acknowledged, right? And not being afraid to ask.

Anat Peri (29:04.758)

Yeah, and to get to that, I’m gonna give you guys a metaphor here and we probably used this one last year, but it’s a good one, so we’ll keep going with it. to get into what I call the ocean of your emotions, just like most surfers on at least the Pacific coast, the water is cold, you need a wetsuit and you need to stretch before you go and surf out there. And so what I mean by that is

A lot of people right now, if they just heard this up until this point of this episode and said, Okay, I’m gonna pause this, I’m gonna sit, and I’m gonna ask those parts to speak, may not hear much because they don’t feel safe yet. So it’s kind of like you’re not just gonna run into the ocean with the board without the wetsuit and stretching, because you probably will hurt yourself. And so making sure that first you are regulating.

your nervous system that you are cultivating safety. And I have a free guided audio on this that we can put in the show notes and share of of that because that practice in and of itself is gonna just do it for you. Meaning if you do that properly, what will emerge are the parts that you’ve tried to

Inna Topiler MS CNS (30:12.77)

Absolutely.

Anat Peri (30:26.678)

resist because you’re basically telling your nervous system, okay, we’re safe. And it says, okay. So you want me to pause on all the things that I’ve been managing for you, that hiding for you? And so those things can start to percolate and come up to the surface more easily. Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (30:42.97)

Yeah, I love that resource. We’ll definitely put in the show notes. You’re so good at cultivating that safety with people. I think it’s it’s so important.

Anat Peri (30:52.14)

Yeah. And I’ve had a lot of people say they had the best nap of their life after that. And I’m like, yeah, that’s because you you don’t realize how much you’re operating constantly in a heightened state.

And and then you’re wondering why you can’t your body can’t repair itself from whatever symptoms you have, because you’re always in a threat. So that’s the first part. The first part is doing that. And that guide that audio guide will guide you to observing your body and noticing sensations and

Yeah, a practice to maybe do beforehand is to grab a journal and a piece of paper or type it if you prefer typing and just let yourself fully dump out everything that’s there.

When it comes to whatever this area is for you. And maybe it’s not even this area. Like I said.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (32:02.308)

Good point. Yeah.

Anat Peri (32:03.958)

Maybe it’s something else. But it’s taking so much of your energy that your body’s not getting what it needs to recover. You know, for me, for years, I mean I, you know, I have Hashimoto’s and for years before I got into the deeper work of the nervous system, it wasn’t always a part of my my modality. I was

Inna Topiler MS CNS (32:14.734)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (32:30.72)

I was operating on, I mean, to me, I was like, how did I do 10 sessions a day? Like I used to lead retreats and do 60 healing sessions in six days for six people. Like I was just like, how how did I even function? I didn’t realize how much I was disconnected from my body and running, running, running, running constantly, doing, performing, producing, generating.

And so I think it’s a real opportunity, not only with the audio practice, but then to grab a journal and just write about the important areas of your life and see where you might be and ask yourself, is there anything here that I’m scared of that I’m scared to admit when it comes to my marriage, when it comes to my health, when it comes to my kids, and am I raising them the right way? Am I

Are they are they gonna be, you know, happy, healthy when it comes to my parents? Am I worried about my parents? Am I worried about money? What am I worried about? And just to start to allow ourselves to bring a little bit of attention to those parts as opposed to always thriving and driving towards the the goals that we want.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (33:34.137)

Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (33:41.818)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (33:57.699)

The goals are great, but sometimes those goals are a running from something that we just don’t want to happen. There was a point in my business that things were great and then I had, you know, I had a fallout with my CEO and things really shifted downhill for a period of time in my business. And I just went into overdrive, producing, generating all this, not realizing that it wasn’t from like an inspired place.

It was from this underlying fear of I don’t want to lose my business.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (34:34.65)

Mm. Right. And what does that mean about you, right? If you know, you’re gonna be a failure or whatever the belief is, right? That you yeah.

Anat Peri (34:35.488)

I’m afraid I’ll lose my business.

Anat Peri (34:40.61)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And until I felt that fear fully, it ran my business for two years. And here’s the

Inna Topiler MS CNS (34:51.982)

Wow. And that’s so interesting because, you know, it’s again kind of going back to like, well, why would you want to feel what it would feel like to lose your business? But it’s like you’re saying you’re feeling it not because you want it to happen, you’re feeling it so your body can actually process it so that then it doesn’t have to have this under n the fear of running underneath.

Anat Peri (35:15.916)

Well yeah, here’s the thing. So when we program our when we reprogram our nervous system, what happens is that it goes from something when we pro so let me back up. Sorry, restart. my girlfriend dropped tea over to me and it was distracting, so lost my train there. okay.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (35:33.399)

Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (35:44.772)

We’re back.

Anat Peri (35:47.787)

So here’s the thing. Our nervous system isn’t reacting or responding to things that are quote unquote negative versus positive. It’s familiar versus unfamiliar. So for one person, familiar is chaos. Familiar totally, they could they they can thrive, they could generate, they can move through chaos. Put them on vacation at the beach.

an all inclusive where they have they don’t have anything they need to handle or deal with and they’ll either get drunk or get into a fight with their partner just to create that chaos again or f because it’s familiar. And so why do we want to feel these things so that we can reprogram our system for familiarity.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (36:29.562)

Create the chaos because it’s familiar. Yeah. Right.

Anat Peri (36:44.835)

And so for example, with me, this fear of losing my business, losing money and everything that was tied to that.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (36:45.092)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (36:54.214)

It it drove me to do things that I didn’t want to do until I felt it. And when I felt it fully, now it’s okay. Like I fear could sit right with me. It could be here and I’m still gonna stay true to myself. So we don’t realize how many times these emotions that we don’t want to feel are actually hijacking us.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (37:11.618)

Mm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (37:22.136)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (37:22.466)

They’re hijacking our higher self, what we ultimately truly, if we knew we were safe and we were good no matter what, want to do or how to be. And it’s not, you gotta feel it forever. You can actually in about 90 seconds, your body can learn it. Your nervous system can metabolize it. That’s what was happening with my client.

It was like, this is safe. Okay, let’s start to metabolize it. And it was like it was discharging it and and it was discharging all the stuffing. And it was like, okay, so this gets to be a part. Not let’s put this part away and and and tuck it somewhere else, but coming back into wholeness with all these parts, all these emotions are welcome.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (37:58.115)

Yeah. It’s interesting.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (38:08.408)

Right.

Anat Peri (38:21.504)

It actually is what it is to be human. Part of the human experience is the full spectrum of our emotions. There is no good or bad. That’s the problem. It’s that we’ve made emotions good or bad, pleasant, unpleasant, instead of just energy. Just energy. And so let’s let’s come back into learning to be with these different sensations and energies. And then your nervous system.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (38:21.593)

Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (38:38.616)

Yeah. Yeah.

Anat Peri (38:51.148)

What’s gonna happen the next time that energy comes up, that emotion comes up, is in 0.2 seconds, your nervous system is gonna metabolize it. And in two seconds, it reaches your conscious awareness if it’s not metabolized. So you’ll find that you’ll say things like, I don’t really feel that way anymore. I used to feel that way all the time. Why don’t I feel that way?

Inna Topiler MS CNS (39:09.069)

Mm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (39:20.066)

Mm.

Anat Peri (39:20.088)

Because by the time we’re feeling something, it’s reached our conscious awareness. And so when it’s programmed in there, it gets handled in point two seconds. It doesn’t take your conscious awareness, which means it doesn’t take away from your presence, your present moment of who you be and what you do. You’re not getting hijacked by it. And you’re building capacity. You’re building nervous system capacity.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (39:42.042)

Mm.

Anat Peri (39:48.994)

to handle more and stay at ease, stay present, stay calm, stay neutral.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (40:00.088)

Wow. I I this really I mean it resonates so much with me what you just said. And I think that it will with everyone else listening too. It’s like the vision that I have in my mind is almost like if those parts don’t get acknowledged, it’s literally like this little, I don’t know, kid or whatever, but I’m seeing almost like a a cartoon character like in a cellar that’s like knocking on the door, like, I mean and then like you keep like shoving this thing down, and then like

There’s just this constant noise in your house because someone’s knocking on the cellar. Like, how do you concentrate with all that noise? You know? And and it’s what I love to you about what you’re saying is that it’s you’re creating familiarity because that’s the part that I didn’t really think about or didn’t realize that we’re used to what we’re used to and we’ll create more of what we’re used to, even if it’s not safe, we’ll create it because to us it feels safe. But the more you make these other emotions familiar, whether they are pleasant or unpleasant.

Once they’re familiar, you know, I think the biggest thing to me from what you said is that it’s processed before it’s even in your conscious mind. So then it doesn’t run your life because it gets processed before you even open and then you don’t feel it in that same way. I mean, it’s like healing a trauma essentially, you know.

Anat Peri (41:12.374)

Yeah. absolutely. And I I want to give you guys another metaphor and another important place of like, well, how do I even know that I’m being hijacked? so think about you’re you’re in the driver’s seat of your life and something overwhelms your system, right? Some emotion, sensation that you’re like, no, no, no, I don’t want to deal with this is your automatic response. It’s like

Inna Topiler MS CNS (41:23.065)

No.

Anat Peri (41:41.057)

your bodyguards will take over and will throw you in the back seat. Your inner child’s in the back seat. You’re not, you’re not tending to that emotion. And what I want the listeners to learn is that we all have these bodyguards. We all have what’s called personality patterns. And you have two that are your your two defaults. You have your primary and your secondary. When your primary doesn’t work,

your secondary takes over. So like I was sharing with my client the other day, I was like, your primary is definitely to just stuff it down and endure. For some people, it’s to dissociate. That was one of mine. Or to collapse into hopelessness and be and and need someone else to help me. Or for some people it’s to get it right and get it perfect and perform well. Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (42:36.974)

That’s me. Mm-hmm.

Anat Peri (42:39.759)

And for some it’s to control and force.

And we think that these bodyguards are who we are.

Anat Peri (42:52.526)

And they’re not who you are. They’re just what’s taking over in order for you to feel a sense of safety. And so when you learn your primary and your secondary, and I have a I have a have a quiz on this, so we can we can throw that in the notes as well. when you learn yours, by the way, you’ll get to also learn your kids and your husband’s too. It’s so helpful.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (43:11.291)

yes, please, people are gonna love that.

Anat Peri (43:22.04)

to understand because it’s a really quick way to recognize, I’m not in, I’m not in the driver’s seat of my life anymore. Like I’ve like, like this, I am totally in my pattern right now. And what’s really helpful is with kids or with your partner, significant other, when you’re just like, he’s he’s in his pattern again. Okay, cool. And I have another, another freebie to give you guys where you could start to recognize it.

and how to support someone in diffusing it, especially if you’re a practitioner. Especially.

we don’t w you could successfully operate your life. or a I take that back. You can successfully operate a part of your life with with your bodyguards running the show. I mean, you said it, you wanna your your primary is what what is called the rigid pattern and there’s a lot of great gifts to them.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (44:23.33)

You telling me I’m rigid or not?

Anat Peri (44:25.654)

Yeah. Yeah. And but the gifts are incredible. How do you tap into the gifts? Well, the more you’re in the driver’s seat, the the the the the bodyguards are in the backseat and you get to be more in the gifts of them. And so there’s a lot of great gifts. And so people can create success in their life, but in some area of your life it’s gonna bite you as well.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (44:27.778)

I’m kidding, I’m not.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (44:53.178)

Sure. For sure. And I can really resonate. I’m sorry. and I was gonna say I can really resonate with a lot of that and some of it I haven’t thought of, but just with the examples that you gave about some of your own life, I can resonate with that and and think of a few for myself too. I mean, I think you mentioned when you were seeing sixty clients and doing retreats for so many people. I mean, I’ve done that too in a different way. I don’t do retreats, but you know, when I first started my practice, I was seeing patients every single day. And, you know.

Anat Peri (44:54.411)

It’s gonna it’s it’s gonna limit you.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (45:22.198)

My sessions are just like your sessions aren’t your typical seeing your conventional doctor for 10 minutes who looks at you, writes a few notes, and sends you on your way, right? I mean, we’re getting into everything. And it was so rewarding, but also so exhausting. But the thing is, I didn’t think I had a choice because there was all these people that needed help. My waiting list was two years long. And it wasn’t until I realized a lot of that that I was like, well, I can’t one me.

Anat Peri (45:41.582)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (45:51.129)

Right, can’t keep doing that. So that’s where the programs were born. And you know, essentially, like eventually I think there’ll be practitioner trainings and things like that. Right. But I think there was this part of me that was like, I don’t have a choice. And I’m sure there was fear about if I don’t, what will happen? Right. I haven’t really truly thought through that. But as you’re bringing it up, I’m like, huh, I bet I did have all this fear and I probably still do it. But what would happen if not?

so it’s really, really interesting. And even the there’s another part that what you said brought up for me, and I share very openly on the show and you know, with my community about my son Jake, and you know, he’s autistic. He’s very high on the spectrum, like he’s very high functioning, but he’s autistic and he has pandas, and it’s you know, there’s there’s always struggles with that. And I think when he was little, right when he was diagnosed, that I did not admit that because there were so many things that came to mind, right? From fear of, my gosh, what is what would his life be like.

To fear of what did I do wrong? Like, how can I have a child who’s autistic with all the things that I do and all the stuff? Obviously, genetics play a role. But it was very much like not even thinking about that, but it’s like, no, no, like it can’t happen to me. It happens to those people and pandas, especially, because pandas is more rare, though these days it’s not as much anymore. But I think when I first learned about it, I’m like, pandas can’t happen to me. Like it’s like this weird, not weird, but it’s such a rare thing. And it happens to those people over there, you know? And I’m not sure that I felt

through all of that fear completely to be honest, as you’re bringing it up and I’m thinking about it.

Anat Peri (47:20.246)

Yeah, exactly. And so all these things that we don’t want to admit or feel through are moments that we are losing the connection to being in the driver’s seat of our life and operating as our higher self and we’re giving our power away. And so learning and starting to recognize and and notice for yourself, I think your other pattern is and I think we’ve talked about this, and again I say this.

from from knowing you for a long time and seeing a lot of the gifts of it more than the the distortions of it. But I’d say your other pattern is probably the leaving pattern, which is to dissociate from your body and and to be more in your head, in your yes, yes, in

Inna Topiler MS CNS (48:00.835)

Really?

Inna Topiler MS CNS (48:04.525)

well yes, that’s true. Cause I was gonna say that’s more Scott. He’s just so he’s like shrimp under the rug and like off we go.

Anat Peri (48:11.19)

No, no, Scott, Scott, Scott endures. Scott can just shove it, push it down. You’ll just be in your head, in your imagination. And a lot of the gifts of the leaving pattern is the the level of like creativity. That that creative juice, that channeling, that writing, all that creativity is is the gifts of of that pattern. And so yeah, you could see a lot of the gifts, and you could probably see that years ago.

when you were doing sessions and sessions and sessions every day, the reason you felt exhausted is because you didn’t know how to stay connected to your body and your breath while leading while leading the sessions. It’s like so much mind stimulation, giving them all this information and you don’t realize like, am I even taking a breath right now? And that’s something I’ve had to

Inna Topiler MS CNS (48:52.058)

Probably, I’m sure.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (49:03.982)

Yeah. Yeah. Well I rem

Anat Peri (49:07.702)

That that’s my secondary is that pattern as well. And I’ve had to really train myself, even being on podcasts, to make sure that I’m slowing down and taking those breaths so that I don’t get off client sessions or podcasts and feel like my body’s exhausted, like it just ran a race. That is why. So it’s like subtle things like that. Then we understand our patterns, we learn what to do. And it’s all

It’s all connected to the nervous system.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (49:39.801)

Yeah. And the nervous system is directly connected to our immune system, which is why all of this applies to not just Hashimoto’s and thyroid issues, but literally any health condition. And then taking health conditions aside, it applies to every single person because as you said, if not, then you’re not in the driver’s seat of your life and someone else is.

Anat Peri (50:04.91)

Exactly.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (50:05.23)

Yeah. Now we’re not sorry, what were you gonna say?

Anat Peri (50:10.038)

I I was gonna say, you know, we we went off on this beautiful tangent, but I I don’t wanna leave the listeners with like, well, but you didn’t give me the thing. Like, how do I what what do I do? Okay, I’m in the water now. Now what? yeah. So like I said, writing down either before or after you do the the cultivating safety practice, whatever those beliefs are, and then sitting with yourself once you’ve regulated and just repeating them slowly.

as as statements, as as the truth. And noticing where it pings you in your body. And let’s say let’s say ping go ahead.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (50:52.996)

So just to clarify real quick, right? So repeating the mistake. So if you’re afraid, like in your case, you were like, my gosh, I’m gonna lose my business if I don’t like XYZ. So you’re actually sitting there saying, I’m gonna lose my business.

Anat Peri (51:01.334)

Yeah, I will I will fail.

No, it’s more specifics of like I will fail. I will disappoint others, I won’t have money, you know, my my my husband will be will be impacted by this. I I I’ll be useless. Whatever whatever whatever comes up.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (51:08.886)

okay.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (51:25.85)

So it’s whatever the beliefs that come up from that statement. So it’s almost like a an affirmation, like a negative, I mean not an affirmation. And it’s a statement. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Now I’m just gonna ask this question just because I know that some of the listeners may want, you know, may want to ask this. And that is, you know, when we talk about affirmations, and especially people who have done certain like spiritual work or

Anat Peri (51:32.916)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it’s a statement. It’s a statement you are

Inna Topiler MS CNS (51:54.937)

you know, people that, you know, do a lot of coaching, you know, there’s this belief that you say out loud what you want, right? Like I am in a positive statement of some kind, that you’re almost you know, putting it out there in the world, so to speak. So I could see someone asking, well, wait a minute, as I’m saying the statement and feeling it, am I putting out, am I putting this out like meaning that I want this? Right. Because you’re not saying it because you want it, you’re saying it to feel it, but can it sound like you’re putting it out?

as like an affirmation.

Anat Peri (52:26.508)

Okay. So I’m I’m gonna go back to my my my client example that I shared. He was saying all these affirmations. And you know, we are emitting omitting frequency. And you know, those of us that that study manifestation and believe in all that, which I do, it’s like you are emitting a frequency to the universe and it’s giving you it’s just it’s matching that. And

All those great affirmations he was saying in the mirror now are more powerful because there isn’t this other energy taking away from it in in in resistance to it, in battle with it. And I also then taught him, I was like, don’t just say these in the mirror. I was like, feel each one, like build a whole visual around it. Like

If you say you’re gonna be a millionaire, visualize yourself in that house and out on that deck overlooking the mountains and all that. And as I was saying, creating this vision for him, he was getting all kinds of giddiness and sensations inside. I go, Yeah, we get to really tune into that frequency as well. But you can’t really access that authentically if a part of you is.

Being controlled is being tamed.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (53:58.659)

Yeah. But then when you say the negative and you feel it, wouldn’t you also for some people naturally have visions around that because or or or should you not? Negative visions meaning.

Anat Peri (54:08.302)

Sure. And and and you’ll have the the practice when I the practice when I do this with my clients is we’ll say it, I’ll say it, it’ll they’ll feel it wherever it is, they’ll feel through it, they’ll come back to neutrality, I’ll say it again, it pings them again, they’ll come back to neutrality, I’ll say it again, and usually by the third or fourth time, they’re like, It’s gone.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (54:34.982)

Mm. Okay.

Anat Peri (54:36.066)

I mean, his was more obvious because he had a physical discharge of burping. For some people, it’s more subtle. So you want to but that’s the process of retraining the nervous system for that. And then it’s gone. And then it’s just and then you say the statement to them and they’re just like, Mm, no, it’s not true. There’s it’s it’s not just not true in my mind. My body isn’t trying to fight that either. And so

Inna Topiler MS CNS (54:56.474)

Mm-hmm.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (55:04.516)

Yeah.

Anat Peri (55:05.504)

It’s okay, guys, for a period of time to say those things because you know what? There’s even if you’re not saying it out loud, your body’s communicating it. You know, the this the same client, he actually he actually said to me, he said to me, he goes, Another, I actually studied communications in college and you just reminded me that my professor said that even when we’re not verbally speaking.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (55:20.068)

That yeah, and that’s the part.

Anat Peri (55:34.452)

We are communicating so much more. And so don’t kid yourself that just because you’re not saying it out loud, that it’s not being expressed, omitted.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (55:46.619)

That is a really, really good point because if we go by, you know, energy and frequency and things like that, right, it you still if it’s in your body, it’s in your body, right? ‘Cause there’s still those underlying emotions. That’s yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Get rid of it.

Anat Peri (56:01.485)

Yeah. So you might as well so you might as well give it give give it center stage. Like just acknowledge it. Let it be the star for a few minutes. And then it’s it knows that it’s welcomed, that it’s okay, the energy is there, it gets metabolized, the nervous system says, No worries, we’re we’re good with this and then you’re free from it. And then the power of your visualizations, of your affirmations is

is gonna be tenfold. It’s and it’s gonna be from a place of real authentic, like like like like real authenticity. Your system’s gonna feel calm in it.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (56:40.91)

Yeah. Right, ’cause it’s hard to believe a positive affirmation if you have these negative ones that are saying, nah, not true, not true, right? So

Anat Peri (56:46.572)

Yeah. It’s called it’s it’s called being a talking bobblehead. I said to him, I go, Don’t kid yourself. I was like, You’re being a talking bobblehead in the mirror. I was like, Now try it out. Now see the difference. Now feel the difference.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (57:00.974)

Yeah. I love that so much. Now, Anat, for those that want to experience this, because I think that this is something that everyone needs to do. whether they’re doing that with one on one with you or your programs. I mean, it’s I think it’s just such important work for anyone. How do they connect with you? Where do they find you? How do they contact you? Tell us.

Anat Peri (57:25.74)

Yeah, so I hang out on Instagram and I message every new follower because I love getting to know the human behind the follower. with any resources that then I can support you with. And my offerings, my programs, you can go to training camp for the soul dot com. And as we promised, I’ll be giving you guys all these wonderful freebies to to help you get in the ocean of your emotions and feel better. ‘Cause the only way to

Inna Topiler MS CNS (57:52.216)

Yeah. Amazing.

Anat Peri (57:54.466)

Feel better is to get better at feeling.

Inna Topiler MS CNS (57:58.286)

The only way to feel better is to get better at feeling. I think we need to say that one more time. I love that. Anat, thank you so much. This was so insightful. And I know people really, really need to hear this and do this work. So I appreciate you being here again. And thank you.

Anat Peri (58:16.984)

Thank you. Always a pleasure to come back.